What Your Remodeling Website Should Actually Do

Aaron
So for anybody listening to the podcast right now, how can they do some sort of self assessment on their website?

Logan Shinholser
We ask a two part question, we go, what would you consider to be a high quality lead? We’ll talk through what information do you want your prospects to know? Because all they’re doing is they’re just trying to make the website fast, but they’re sacrificing things that actually are going to make somebody excited enough to want to move forward.

Aaron
I want people to go through the website in order that their questions naturally arise.

Logan Shinholser
That’s the goal. Everybody’s questions are gonna be a little bit different.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
The first thing that everybody does want to see though is can you even do what I want you to do, but on the Internet have a very short attention span. They don’t trust you, they don’t know you. So a lot of what we like to track is like, how many pages are they going to, how long are they staying on the website? Website that we did not create, they’re spending about a minute on a gallery page for us. They’re spending about two and a half minutes a little bit over that.

Aaron
Why even have a process page or a services page about us page?

Logan Shinholser
The AI stuff can pick up on that. As long as the website’s built correctly.

Aaron
It reads through it.

Logan Shinholser
It reads through it. So eventually, I really believe like in the next five years it’s going to be like you pop into like your ChatGPT or your Gemini or whatever. I’m looking for a remodeler. Who should I go with? And it’s going to know so much about you. And it’s now just going to be a game of like, can we then get them to the right information as fast as possible?

Aaron
We’re back this week for part four of our Interior Remodeler Step by Step marketing guide. And this week we’re discussing the role of your website. How to create a website that actually gets prospects excited at the possibility of working with you and even how to start future proofing your website for the new age of AI search. Let’s get started. Foreign.

Logan Shinholser
Welcome back to the Contractor Growth Network podcast. I’m Logan Shinholser and I’m also joined by Aaron Horner.

Aaron
Hello again.

Logan Shinholser
So today we’re going on our next installment of the overview of like, you know, growing and marketing your remodeling company. Today’s all about the website. So a lot of, I guess, like, the backstory of like why this is such an important topic is I remember I was talking to a prospect Remodeling client. And they came in saying, look, we need help with our SEO, with our ads, with all this stuff. And then once were talking about, okay, like let’s say we get all this stuff dialed in, meaning we have traffic coming to the website from the right people, are they then actually going to turn into a qualified lead or not? And they were like, oh, well, you know, like nobody’s ever really talked to us about a website strategy before.

Logan Shinholser
They’ve always talked to us about an SEO or an ads or this or that strategy. But there’s never been a website strategy before. So today’s really talking about a website strategy for the remodeling company because it’s a very under discussed.

Aaron
Yeah, it’s probably something that people don’t even think about. Like, I mean like the person in your story they even think about. There is a strategy that they could have.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah, correct. And the way that I like to look at websites versus let’s say overall traffic. Traffic, meaning like coming to the website is, it’s basically like traffic would be like having somebody who’s very good at cold calling. And when I say very good, they cold call high volume. They can get a lot of people in the right audience and the right this and the right that. But then the actual, you know, website, what the website’s supposed to do is basically that’s like your version of like a sales conversation. So great, now that you’ve got the person on the phone and like, huh, I am, you know, I’m potentially interested in what you have to offer. That’s when they’re able to say, well, let’s now talk about these are the things that we addressed. Are you having those problems?

Logan Shinholser
This is how we approach it. This is like all of that stuff. That’s what the website is meant to do. And unfortunately what most people do is not that at all. They basically only focus on, well, how many more people can we cold call? Because that’s going to solve our sales problem. But in reality that may be the issue. You may have a really good salesperson that once they’re on the phone with somebody, it’s amazing. But if they’re only calling one person a day, the likelihood that person is going to pick up is very low. But instead of actually figuring out what the problem is, people typically just like to throw more traffic at it and hope that it works itself out.

Aaron
Okay, cool.

Logan Shinholser
So what I want to do is I want to talk through first, just like the different approaches of websites as a whole. And I’ll talk you through realistically what homeowners want to see and what they want to know versus what most people do on their website.

Aaron
Okay.

Logan Shinholser
So when it comes to a website where it comes to just, you know, figuring out what do I need to do as a homeowner to feel confident enough that I can reach out to this company and say, hey, I would like to have you know, I would like to talk to you about my project, get a bid, whatever that is. Basically what they really want to know is a few things. The very first thing is, can you actually do what I want you to do?

Aaron
Yeah, that’s the one question they want immediately.

Logan Shinholser
Okay, and how would you, in your mind, Aaron, like, if you’re a homeowner and you’re trying to think of, like, can they even do what I want them to do? What are you looking for?

Aaron
Always looking for. I want to see physical or as close as I can get to physical proof. So going through, looking at past projects, whether that’s a gallery page, like, my first thing is immediately going through the nav bar and then clicking whatever I think is going to give me answer to that the fastest. So it’d be, I want to see pictures of your work. I want to see real client stories, maybe testimonials as well, examples of what you’ve done. To see, have you even done something like what I’m looking for before?

Logan Shinholser
And if the remodeling company has never done anything that you are, like, looking for before, how much does the process that they go through or the price that you are at, how much of that stuff matters at this point?

Aaron
It would have to be overcoming a lot of doubt, immediate doubt. Like, they would have to really do a lot of heavy lifting on the back end to let me have any faith in them at that point.

Logan Shinholser
So that’s the first thing that we really want to do, is make sure that people, we’re able to show people like, this is actually the things that we do somebody can look at and go, okay, I, you know, that is close to what I’m looking for. I would like that in my house.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Then the next piece are some of the other pieces, which is going to be the pricing. Like, do we understand what this stuff costs? Because ultimately, if your price point for Your budget is 30 grand and that the project that we are showing them is actually 130 grand, very big mismatch.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
But it’s not like a homeowner is like actively like, oh, man, I would love to just not know the price and just have a salesperson sell to me. People want to know the price of this stuff.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
So price is a big one. They also want to know basic process, like, how does it all work when you come out here? Is it going to take three weeks? Is it going to take three months? Can you start tomorrow? Do you have to start next year? So it’s a lot of just education around all of that stuff. And the last thing is like, they again want to feel the trust, which is really coming back down to like, do I feel good about this company enough that I, one, want to hire them for the project, Two, the price points or like the ballpark ranges and the timelines and everything seems aligned with what I am looking for.

Logan Shinholser
And then three, ultimately they look professional enough that I’m willing to entertain parting ways with my money to have them in my house to do that project that I’m looking for.

Aaron
Yeah. Okay, so. So when a prospect comes in, like when somebody’s website comes across, how do you actually, like, are these the questions you’re asking yourself when saying, like, okay, do they need their website updated? Are they a potential? Like, are they in need of this? Is that what you’re asking yourself as you’re going through the websites?

Logan Shinholser
Meaning, like, as Logan, the CG guy?

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah. So basically what I do is on these, like, on sales causes, what we will do is what we’ll talk through, what information do you want your prospects to know? So we go through the whole idea of like the referral quality leads online, which is basically like talking through what are your referrals like, what’s the process they go through that makes them excited to reach out to you, that you would love everybody to go through, regardless of are they a referral or not? And it’s typically going to be they’ve been in the space, they get excited by the actual, you know, oh, here’s an amazing kitchen that, you know, their friend just installed. And they’re actually getting to feel it, touch it, experience it. They’re immersed in it.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
They’re also able to trust their friend who’s actually getting the project or got the project done. So it’s like, well, if you’re willing to do this, then it makes it a little bit easier. And it’s almost like giving me permission to also explore doing this. And then they’re also going informed and it’s knowing timelines, knowing process, knowing budgets, potential budgets, things like that. Because, you know, at this point, when you go to buy A car, you know, maybe with, like, the. The. The upgraded package and this and that maybe adds 10% onto the project or under the car. Excuse me. Yeah, but you’re not going in, going, okay, Like, I think I can get all these features in a car, but I have no idea. I’m not doing any research, and I don’t know what this stuff costs.

Logan Shinholser
And you’re still going to the car dealership. You’re doing all this research online ahead of time. So you’re going informed. And that’s basically the trend that’s happening as a whole as well that we want to replicate online, because it’s already happening offline.

Aaron
Okay. Okay. So you’re basically. What you’re saying is the goal of the website is to get them all of that information, make sure that they. They have it, and they feel like they trust you before speaking with you.

Logan Shinholser
That is the way that we approach it on the remodeling side. And the reason for that is it is such a high trust, high price point, high timeline, high level of intimacy project because of the fact that they’re doing it in your home. That all of that needs to get across really quickly on a website.

Aaron
Okay.

Logan Shinholser
Because otherwise, if you don’t get it across on the website, then a couple things happen. Either one, somebody does not trust you enough to even want to reach out.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
And I can tell you, for example, when my wife and I were looking at doing our basement originally, I know one of the things that we hear a lot is like, oh, this person didn’t go with me. They probably just went with somebody cheaper. Well, I can tell you, for a lot of this stuff, it’s not like, oh, I’d rather just save a bunch of money and get my kitchen done on the cheap. A lot of it is gonna be people that are just like, well, for that amount of money, this project is just not worth it as a whole.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
So that is a big part of this. When were trying to go for that basement of the different basement remodeling companies that we saw around the Charlotte area, when were looking at the projects, I remember, like, looking at them with her, thinking she was gonna be like, oh, like, these are great. Or, oh, maybe we look at somebody cheaper. But she was like, what if we just do this project later? I was like, oh, so that’s what really what happens is more so they just delay because there’s no excitement around it.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
It’s like investing difficult.

Aaron
There’s no reason to do it now, right? Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Like there’s gonna be a lot of energy, a lot of effort. Why now versus later? So of course people don’t move forward.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
And that’s just because there’s, like. In that case, there was a lack of excitement. The photos didn’t do it justice. There was no like, oh, I would love this in my house right now. It was more of like, well, this is fine, but, like, maybe we just talk about this later. And it’s almost like we then needed our basement to get totally flooded out to then be forced to do the basement project, versus, like, being excited enough to say, all right, let’s just get this thing rolling.

Aaron
Yeah, okay, so that’s a good point. So it’s not just getting them the information, but also doing it in a way that gets them excited about it. Probably lowers the barrier to entry. Saying, like, okay, the process isn’t that difficult. This will definitely be worth it for us.

Logan Shinholser
That last part’s the biggest piece. This will be worth it for us because what we’re doing here is in the remodeling side, and there’s different types of remodeling. And this is why we’re talking about, like, the interior remodeling. It is like. One of our clients talks about, like, remodeling is not a logical process. It is, like, a very illogical, very emotionally driven thing. Nobody wakes up and says, I need to drop a quarter million dollars on my kitchen and bathroom. Everybody does it because they want to do it. So basically, on this side of things, you’re. You’re practically selling a supercar. You’re selling a quarter million dollar sports car.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
That, like, if your goal is just to get from point A to point B, do you need to go out and buy a Lamborghini?

Aaron
No, probably not.

Logan Shinholser
Right. You just need to buy something that’ll get you from A to B. So that’s. Even within remodeling. There’s different types of remodeling where you’re going to have the really high end, you know, super. Like, you’re just doing it because, like, you want it to look nice. You want to feel a certain way when you come in the house versus, like, it’s so dysfunctional in your kitchen. Everything is leaking. Everything is falling apart.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Well, those are two very different reasons for why somebody is gonna want to remodel their space. And most people, if they’re in a situation where everything’s leaking and falling apart, they’re not thinking like, well, if this is, like, total crap, I might as well spend a Quarter million dollars to make it right? Yeah, they’re really thinking more of like, well, let me just get like, maybe I should make an update. But I’m not gonna like go crazy with all these other aesthetics because it’s just like it’s a different type of person that’s coming in to do this thing.

Aaron
Okay. Okay.

Logan Shinholser
So that is a big part of this is. So when you approach the building of the website, the idea should be the excitement needs to be there. You basically want to show off what you’re able to do and make people go, wow, I would love to have that in my home. And then that allows them to explore more throughout the website to then go, okay, what? Well, if I can have this thing in my home now, how do I actually make that happen? How do It, where I know what it’s going to cost, how long it’s going to take, what the process looks like? So that is the overall goal for what the website should do is not necessarily say, let’s come to the website and boom, give us your information so we can call you.

Logan Shinholser
But we need to basically nurture but educate prospects that are searching for this stuff to a point where they feel comfortable enough that they are wanting to reach out to you.

Aaron
Okay. Okay. So for anybody listening to the podcast right now, what would you tell them? Like, what questions should they be asking about their own website? How can they do some sort of self assessment on their website?

Logan Shinholser
The biggest thing is just writing down what are the things? Like we ask a two part question, we go, what would you consider to be a high quality lead? And in your mind, Aaron, like, what would a high quality lead be? You’re a remodeler and you’re trying to have a homeowner come in.

Aaron
I guess it would be somebody that’s willing and able to. So they’re in my area, they have the money for it and they’re actively looking for my services. Okay.

Logan Shinholser
In the area, have the money.

Aaron
Yep.

Logan Shinholser
Actively looking for your services.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
All right. Those are all lagging indicators or lagging things to look at. Because basically, let’s say in your area, how would somebody know if they’re in your area or not?

Aaron
I would. I mean, from a home, like, I would. Typically when I’m going on a website, I would just sometimes you can scroll to the bottom and see where their address is. Okay. Is that’s one way. Yeah, yeah.

Logan Shinholser
So you know what their address is also if it says these are the areas that we service a lot.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Would that also Be a way that if you were in that location, that would be like, okay, cool, they service my area.

Aaron
Yeah, yeah. I wouldn’t know where to find that on the website. It would just have to be apparent to stick out to me because I wouldn’t like know what tab to click on to find that information.

Logan Shinholser
Okay. So for sake of this, we’ll go through all that stuff of like how to set it up. But for just imagine that’s the information that you need to know is basically I want to know, do they even service my area?

Aaron
Yeah, yeah.

Logan Shinholser
The second piece you said was, do you have the means for it?

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
What do you mean by that?

Aaron
So I, the homeowner themselves, I want them to be like, are they even my kind of client? Like, are they in the ballpark range of the kind of projects I do? Are they expecting a $20,000 kitchen remodel instead of a hundred thousand dollar kitchen remodel?

Logan Shinholser
So money wise is what you’re saying?

Aaron
Yeah, yeah.

Logan Shinholser
And if you then flip that around. So if somebody needs to feel like, okay, am I in the range of this? What should the remodeler do to say, hey, this is how you can find out if you’re in the range of what we do or not Financially.

Aaron
I would guess like having pricing on the site simply enough, like a range of what. This is the kind of projects we do.

Logan Shinholser
Okay, perfect. And what was the last one that.

Aaron
You brought up willing? Like, do they even. Are they interested in my services?

Logan Shinholser
Okay, so from that side, let’s say the service side.

Aaron
Right.

Logan Shinholser
What could a remodeler put out proactively that tells them these are the services that I provide.

Aaron
Proactively? You mean not on the website, but.

Logan Shinholser
Before on the website somewhere.

Aaron
Oh, okay. I mean, I guess just having like a services page, like tab or something like that. You go through and see all this stuff.

Logan Shinholser
Sure. So basically what you just described was these are all the things that make up a good high quality lead.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
And then all we do is that’s cause and effect. Basically the effect is do they, are they in? You know, am I in the service range? Do I even want the services they provide budget? Am I in with, you know, within this company’s budget?

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Another high quality lead is like, do they, are they willing to follow my process?

Aaron
Right.

Logan Shinholser
I have a certain way of doing things. Are they willing to say, okay, like if you do design, build, they are somebody that goes, okay, I’ll do design. Like that sounds like pretty good. I’m down with Design. Another one is basically like the overall, like what are their expectations? You know, are they from an actual like communication standpoint as the project’s happening, are they expecting the project manager to be there on the job site all day, every day? Or they just simply just like, hey, just touch base once a day or are they like not even going to be around so they don’t even care? Yeah, so all of those things that in your mind, if you think about what makes up a high quality lead, we then just flip it into what is the cause here.

Logan Shinholser
And that is now what we want to build that website around and make sure that information comes across.

Aaron
Okay. Yeah, because as you’re saying it, like I’m even thinking about like you talk about like design process. There’s a, I mean even that alone if you don’t specify what your design process looks like on your site. I mean, just in from talking with our clients, there’s a ton of different design processes that people have. Like, it means different things from person to person.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah, it’s a lot of, I mean a lot of this stuff is just educating and nurturing. So like that the difference in my mind of educating, nurturing is gonna be like, the education is like, basically this is how we work. Like this is what it looks like to work with us. And we want that to come across because the more that we can educate people on the how we work, what it costs, all that sort of stuff, they’re going to be able to self select am I the right fit for this company or not? Then you flip it around to the nurturing side is a lot of this information is like, it’s very factual driven. So if we just said, hey, our kitchens are between 100 grand and 200 grand, and that’s all we said.

Logan Shinholser
There’s a lot of context that is missed from that because somebody may be thinking like, oh, 100 to 200, like man, like I was thinking 80. But you could also maybe talk about like, hey, within that hundred, this is what you’re going to get. You’re going to get daily on site, you’re going to get this, you’re going to get that. So you’re actually also like painting yourself in like the right light as far as like basically saying like, we follow this exact process or this setup or this approach, these are the benefits to you as the client. And then ultimately they’re the ones that are able to decide, okay, if my budget was 80 and they’re saying they started at 100, is it worth getting all of These things for the extra 20 grand. Okay.

Logan Shinholser
So that is where, when we talk about asking prospects, what do you consider to be a high quality lead? We then figure out, great, in an ideal world, the website will tell people, hey, if you align with these things, you are an ideal client for us as well. So that is how we go about it. So it’s not. The website’s not meant to be this generic. Let me just add a bunch of random photos, random videos, random text. It’s really meant to say, basically, these are the problems that we solve. This is how we approach it. This is what it costs, this is how long it takes. Here’s the benefit to you, here’s why we go above and beyond. Basically, it is like the way that you approach it is like the resume for the business.

Logan Shinholser
And the more that we can really highlight all the things that you have done as best as possible, the same way that we do it on a resume, the better off we’re gonna be.

Aaron
Okay. And then I’m just assuming in a sales situation, you kind of want to control the way the information comes. You don’t want to immediately start with the cons of here’s how long it’s going to take in the price. Maybe I’m jumping into the how too early. So if you want to stay on the what for a second.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah, let me flip it on, like how a lot of people do their website strategy. Yeah, it’s a lot of just text. So basically, when I look at somebody’s website, I can basically look and very quickly determine are they working with somebody. That one understands the industry.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
And the best way to understand that is if I look at somebody’s website, it’s a remodeler. Let’s say remodeling is a unbelievably visual industry. You’re not buying it because of like, yeah, the function’s great, but like, you want to see it to believe it.

Aaron
Yeah. The examples you talked about earlier, it’s not about having a kitchen, but it’s like the one that you’re picturing in your head, the emotions of it, that kind of thing.

Logan Shinholser
Yes. So I can very quickly see, does this person actually understand the industry? Because if you are not leveraging photos and media of the projects the right way, and it’s not just like slapping them up on the website, but it’s also giving each thing a purpose. That’s going to be like a fast way to go. Okay. They don’t really get the industry, whoever built this website, because they’re either Going off their own framework, or they’re just like slapping some stuff together. But they haven’t actually stopped and thought through how is the homeowner going to want to consume this information? Okay, so that’s the first way that I see it is just basically they don’t understand the industry. The other side of it’s just going to be like, they don’t really understand, like, what is going to drive overall conversion on the website.

Logan Shinholser
It’s kind of like hand in hand, the same. But I see a lot of like, you’ll have a remodeling website that just has a bunch of bullet points on it. And they’re just trying to like, say, like, for example, like, here’s the different types of kitchens that we build. And it’ll just say like modern, traditional, transitional, like mid century, like, it just has all these different, like bullet points of stuff. But like, if we’re gonna say like modern versus traditional versus transitional, like show the video or show the photos of what each different style actually looks like and then say, basically these are the differences here. So if somebody is trying to figure out what type of kitchen they want in their home, they now actually have media that adds a lot of context to it.

Logan Shinholser
But you can tell that somebody doesn’t quite know how to get somebody to like move through the website the right way, because all they’re doing is they’re just trying to make the website fast and in their mind, appease what Google wants to see, which is like a fast website. But they’re sacrificing things that actually are going to make somebody excited enough to want to move forward. And that is giving context to the media.

Aaron
Okay, okay, so that was that. That kind of. That is my next question. So we’ve talked about, like, there is a ton of information that the website should get across to a client or a prospect. But then it’s a question of like, my next question is, how do you go about guiding people through the website? Like, how do you know they’re going to go through it in the right way? Like, do you have to walk through them with it on call? Is that best? Or is it by placing links in certain spots on the website or will they just do it? Everybody does it in different ways.

Logan Shinholser
So the way that most people are going to build a website is it’s going to be you put up a website and right there on like the main home section, you’re going to have, hey, give us your information. Name, email, phone number, address, all that stuff, like right there.

Aaron
Yeah, Or a pop up.

Logan Shinholser
Or a pop up. And like, ultimately, like, that’s all geared around, like, let’s get as many leads as possible. But in the world of like interior remodeling, you don’t really. Well, I get everyone’s business different, but most people don’t want 60 leads a month. Most people want a good two dozen, max. Yeah, like two dozen. Where they’re actually like, all right, these are good leads. They understand the things that we’ve already talked about, which is, you know, price points, timelines. Can you do what I want you to do? Because basically you can only really take on. Maybe if you’re a big operation, they’re bigger projects. Again, it’s gonna be like based off size, but maybe like half a dozen projects a month. You don’t want to go through 60 leads to get to six.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
So it’s a lot of like, nurturing and the goal here and the way the approach that we take it is gonna be we want people to go throughout the website from page to page to page. The pathway that makes the most sense for them.

Aaron
Okay. So not a specific pathway that this is like the ideal. Everybody should go through this.

Logan Shinholser
So the first thing that everybody does want to see, though, is can you even do what I want you to do? And that is where we want to show project photos right off the bat.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
That is the first thing that people want to see. It is not, hey, I want you to sell to me. It is not, hey, I want to see who the people behind the project is. They just want to see, can you even do what I want you to do? And that is when we immediately guide people over to the featured project pages, which are the story driven pages that actually show off the galleries of the projects with context behind the story, how the project was actually created, what the before was the client happy, what selections were made. Basically it’s like a mini case study for the project itself.

Aaron
Okay. Okay. So you want people to go through the website in order that their questions naturally arise.

Logan Shinholser
Like that’s the goal. Everybody’s questions are gonna be a little bit different. Yeah, but you want to be able to get people to the information that they want to see sooner than later.

Aaron
Yeah. Okay. Because they don’t owe anything to your website. You’re just one website out of 10 that they’ll be looking at pretty much. So they aren’t finding the answers on yours. They’ll just go to the next guys.

Logan Shinholser
Correct. So the way that we’re approaching these websites is we want to have a lot of what they’re called as calls to action. But basically it’s going to be links or buttons to go from one page to the next. Typically, like, website best practice is you’re gonna have like, a very standard. Like, this is the same call to action for every, you know, every page on the website. And it’s all like, contact us or get a quote. And like, we used to build on that way where every other button was like, something about, like, reach out right now.

Aaron
Yeah. Cause that’s. I mean, you’re thinking at the end of the day, no matter where they’re at in the process, they’re have to reach out. You want them to reach out.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah. The way that we’re approaching it now is we want to. If we’re trying to educate people so we’re getting the information across, but also we’re trying to nurture them in the right way where it’s still getting them excited. It’s very, very hard to do that one single page. So we’re trying to do that now by getting them to go to page to page. So our big thing is we. The hypothesis is that if we can get you to go to multiple pages, that you go from the homepage, when you first land on it, to a feature project page. And then on the feature project page, it talks about, well, you know, like, as part of this project, we actually did design work. Oh, they have a design work. I didn’t realize that.

Logan Shinholser
There’s a link right there that says, are you curious to see how design works? And you click on that and takes you over to the remodeling design page. And on that design page, it’s gonna walk through why design, what your approach to design is, what the process of design is. Do you do anything that’s special and unique to your design versus somebody else’s? And on that page, you’re gonna have, you know, maybe options that shows like, hey, this is a little snippet on how we approach kitchen design, which is going to be very different than whole home remodeling design. But if you want to learn more about how we actually do kitchen remodels, click this link and it takes you over to the kitchen remodeling page that talks you through the problem, the solution, the impact of the actual kitchen remodeling service.

Logan Shinholser
So basically, you’re taking people from page to page to continuously explore the education side. So, meaning, like, what it looks like to work with a remodeling Company, but also the nurturing side, which is why you specifically with the goal that we’re trying to keep them on the site for as long as possible, going from as many pages to as possible with the end result going them saying, this is great. I feel like they understand exactly what I’m looking for. Let me now reach out versus, hey, I know nothing about this company, but let me go ahead and just fill out this contact form. I just want to talk to somebody there.

Aaron
Yeah, they want it as easy as possible. If getting on the phone is the easiest option, that’s what they’ll choose.

Logan Shinholser
And people will choose that. Like, if they want to reach out, like, they can do that. But, like, if you’re immediately driving people to that place now you flip it around and it’s, you know, you’re an electrician and somebody, you know, it’s the dead of winter. People don’t want to go through 40 pages to figure out how many, you know, what types of furnaces they could have. And, like, they just want. Who can. Hey, I need you to come out here now.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Remodeling is different.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
So that is what we want the website to be able to do. So a lot of what we like to track is, like, how many pages they’re going to. How long are they staying on the website, those feature project pages. So, for example, most people’s project pages are just gonna be a gallery. Our feature project pages is gonna have, you know, like, what the client, what their problems were, what they wanted in the home, what the process looks like, the actual gallery itself, the testimonial, what you did, why you did it, looking at, like, how long. So people, on average, on just a normal, like, website that we did not create, gallery, like, we have stats on this stuff. They’re spending about a minute on a gallery page for us.

Logan Shinholser
They’re spending about two and a half minutes a little bit over that one of our feature project pages.

Aaron
Okay, so then you’re taking that stat to mean that they’re taking in more of that information. They’re actually becoming more educated. They’re not just looking at the page being like, okay, that’s great. I’m gonna call them anyways.

Logan Shinholser
Correct.

Aaron
Okay.

Logan Shinholser
You know, and maybe part of it, like a. And it’s all gonna be nuanced. So, like, maybe the other gallery pages that we’re able to track, like, from somebody else’s website that we just, like, inherit, maybe they only have two photos, and somebody spends 30 seconds on each photo. I know for us, we typically have for like a final gallery, anywhere from like 12 to 24 photos if it’s like a full home. So part of it is probably scrolling through the images, but on top of that, we add a lot of context into the backstories and how stuff was done, things like that.

Aaron
Okay, great.

Logan Shinholser
So that is something that we want to look at and see. Like, hey, you know, if you are, let’s say in a sales call and somebody’s like, oh, let me see that project, and they spend a minute looking through the project versus two and a half minutes looking through the project. Just from what your gut is telling you, which person seems more engaged? Minute or two and a half minutes?

Aaron
Yeah, obviously two and a half. Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Same thing with the website. So our websites, we have about on average like a double how long people are staying on the website as a whole compared to non. Again, same thing. Longer that somebody’s gonna stay on your website and consume the right information, the better off that they’re gonna be. Way more likely to want to reach out to you when they’re ready to move forward.

Aaron
Okay. Okay. So thinking about the website kind of as a funnel, the first question they’re asking is, can you even do this? And then you’re saying the solution to that is a feature project page. Correct. Going in and being able to see that. Do you want to talk through like the specifics of that page? Like you kind of glazed over it. You glazed over compared to a gallery. Tell me a little bit about what specifically does that page need to do? What makes that page actually answer that question for people.

Logan Shinholser
So it’s all storytelling.

Aaron
Okay.

Logan Shinholser
So if anything, you’re probably even more qualified to walk through this. So I’ll tell you my rendition.

Aaron
I’m just setting you up. You got it.

Logan Shinholser
And then you tell me where I get it wrong. So basically the way that we approach these are the most story driven pages that we have on the entire website. So story is everything in this world. So let’s say hgtv. Hgtv. If they just wanted to show the actual project itself, they could cut it from a 48 minute video to a 48 second video. And they’re just doing a walkthrough.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Why do people like HGTV in your opinion, Aaron?

Aaron
Well, a lot of it, hgtv, it’s the hosts, they’re, they’re charismatic and likable. They want to see the transformation. It’s, I mean people, when they’re watching stuff, they want to feel like their time was, well Spent. And so if they can watch some but something, see, like somebody in a bad spot, there’s something wrong or something is out of place, then by the end, they can feel like whatever that wrong thing was, that little itch that they were given at the beginning gets scratched. Whatever it was, whatever is broken becomes fixed by the end of it. They feel like, okay, great, that’s awesome. It’s a higher sense of fulfillment or resolution to them.

Logan Shinholser
Yes, it is bait. It is like you get the end result that you want. But even like in that, you know, Extreme Makeover Home Edition, like, yeah, the. The move that bus moment is like the peak of the entire episode. But like 38 minutes of the 48 minutes is the building and the backstory and helping the family that’s had a hard time and all that sort of stuff.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
The big difference, and this is what we’ve learned over the years of doing a lot of the videography side, is that like, that stuff, like hgtv, Extreme Home Makeover, Architectural Digest, you trust the actual network. You trust HGTV in the sense that you’re like, okay, if this is gonna be on hgtv, it’s probably gonna be pretty entertaining, but you also trust the host themselves. So we used to focus a lot on like, the problem and like the process and all that stuff. And a little bit at the end of, like, now we’re show you the big reveal. But on the Internet, people have a very short attention span. They don’t trust you, they don’t know you.

Logan Shinholser
They don’t know that if they sit there and they watch your 48 minute video that Aaron’s remodeling company puts together, if they’re even going to like what you have to offer, is this going to be entertaining enough for me to sit here and watch it and all that stuff?

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
So we actually had to flip it. So now, from a storytelling perspective, what’s the very first thing that we like to show them, Aaron?

Aaron
Yeah, we show them the after because they’re not interested in the people before, they’re interested in the project.

Logan Shinholser
Correct. So on these feature project pages, it’s the same idea. We want to start off by showing them and teasing them a little bit about the after.

Aaron
Okay.

Logan Shinholser
So we’re able to show them, hey, this is the kitchen. This is the whole home. This is the bathroom. If you have like a video walkthrough of it, we like to put that right there at the top. And because the video also follows the exact same progression of storytelling, but get them to the pretty things that they want to actually see up front. And then we can go back into the backstory of everything.

Aaron
Yeah. It builds trust with them immediately. You’re buying yourself time.

Logan Shinholser
Yes. There’s a lot of. I think we’ve talked about this before on the video side of things, but like, the way that, like, Netflix is doing this stuff, like, my wife was watching one of the new, like, Dahmer was like the first series, but like this one recently was like, it’s like these. About these, like, serial killers and stuff like that. They don’t start off with like, here’s them as a child. They start off with, like, them in the police station being told you’re about to go to jail because you did all these horrible things. And then they go back into the backstory.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
So you kind of see what’s going on and then you start from the beginning. That is basically how these want to be set out to say, this is how we want to approach. Like, this is like what the final result is, which is immediately going to tell the person, do you want to stay on this page because you like the final project, but if you don’t, go find a different project that you like more, because then you’re going to be way more into. Okay, now I want to understand the backstory here of how this all came to be.

Aaron
Yeah. Okay. So that even makes me think, like, when somebody’s coming to the website before they even get to the individual featured project, there’s a featured projects pages, like, page that they click on that shows them all the different projects. And you’d almost want like on that for them to be able to immediately look and see. Like, this one applies to me. Whether it’s like by the name that you give the project or the immediate photo, like, I would think you would want the homeowner to come in and look like, oh, this looks like exactly what I’m hoping for.

Logan Shinholser
I saw this is on somebody else’s website we’re doing an audit for. Actually somebody who just moved forward with us, but one of their competitors. I thought it was brilliant. Basically they had three different projects on their homepage and the names of the projects were just like, empty nesters, young kids in their home, first time home buyers. And I was like, oh, wow. Like, I never thought about, like, that. That’s a really cool way of basically saying, like, if you’re really confused as to like, where to start, just start with like, whoever you’re identify with. So like my wife and I, and same with you, and Your wife would probably most likely click on, you know, the young kids, growing family or something. Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Like, so like, you know, the empty nester is probably not going to be like, here’s how we maximize space in your existing place without burning the budget. Because we know that, you know, you’re spending a bunch of money on these kids. That’s going to be way more aligned with like what you’re probably looking for. But on this page, what you’re talking about is we like to get people from the homepage to immediately get them over to the feature project page, which is just going to have a bunch of individual projects that you see like the COVID photo with like a quick little explanation as far as like what we did. So it’d be like this type of project in this area. You can even have it.

Logan Shinholser
Or it’s fun where it’s like this project to solve this issue where it’s like, you know, aging in place without moving the parents out.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
You know, so there’s ways of doing it, but basically the visual is the most important piece. Then what you actually did for it, like in the title is the next most important piece to then get them over to that full length page to explore more.

Aaron
Okay. Yeah. Because the things that you’re saying, like the empty nester, like that would be the story. Like it doesn’t have to be overly complicated. You don’t need them to be crying at the end. Like an easy way to think about it is to just think like the story is the context. Yes. What’s the context? Because now everything else has different meaning.

Logan Shinholser
And it adds the story, adds empathy from the remodeling company side of things. So it takes it from a transactional.

Aaron
Here’s a cool thing we did correct.

Logan Shinholser
We’re the best. This is why our stuff is amazing. Over to a transformational, like we really transformed this person’s home and now they’re able to live in it way better. These are the things that went into it.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Okay, so we want that empathy side. So you’re going to go from like at the top, give them that eye candy. If you have a video, put it there. Then what we like to do is hit them with some quick stats and facts which is going to be like, here’s budgets, here’s timelines. Here’s like a quick overview of what we did to this space. Here’s the location. If you are a. If you’re somebody that is really good about hitting budgets or hitting timelines, like that’s your time to say Here is the expected budget. Here’s what we actually did. Here is the expected timeline. Here’s what we actually did.

Logan Shinholser
So then that way, you’re putting your money where your mouth is, basically, and saying, here is some proof that we’ve actually been able to hit these things versus just us having a banner across the website that says we’re really good with communication. Or really good. Sorry. With like hitting our timelines. Because we know that’s a fear of yours. Well, let’s actually start to add numbers and facts and figures to these actual projects itself to add in more concrete examples to really prove to people we know our stuff very well.

Aaron
Okay. Yeah. So then taking that next section, kind of following on along with like answering homeowners questions, because I can see it being like, can you do the work? Then they go in, they find the one that’s like, okay, here’s what I’m kind of looking for. They see the picture of the thing that applies to them. They click on it. We immediately show them the after. Like, okay, that looks cool, but did it cost a ton? What’s the process like? And so then the stats are kind of answering those immediately as well. Yes. Okay.

Logan Shinholser
Yep. Then from there, quick little problem around some of this stuff. We did, like a fun little quote. We just started doing this. I think it works really well. And that was basically, were spending a ton of time giving the whole backstory of like, this is where they were going wrong and this and that. People were just scrolling right by it. So now we like to just have like a quick one or two liner. Hey, my parents are getting old. I want to make sure that they age in place, in comfort without having to move out.

Aaron
Yeah. That’s the whole story right there. Yeah, it could be the whole story. Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
So quick. Or like, my family is growing and we need a space to actually expand, but we love our home so much and we don’t want to move.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Like, that is the problem right there that people are trying to solve. And if you can get that across, a growing family’s going to look at that and go, that’s me.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Then from there we go back to the eye candy. Hey, here are some of the cool things that we did in this project that actually helped solve those solutions or those problems.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Then we dive a little bit deeper into the problems with some of the before photos actually showing what it looked like before. Maybe like what the client’s wish list was, things like that. Then we moved down into, great, now that we know what the Problems were, what was our process? Did we go through design? Was there not a design? Was there multiple phases of the project? But you’re basically just giving them a high level overview of what the process actually looked like. So in their case, let’s say you just redid the aging in place bathroom. We’re actually able to then maybe show off some of the renderings for the bathrooms right there.

Logan Shinholser
Talk about like, hey, we actually, you know, because we are certified aging in place specialists, we have certain things in, you know, like in our design software that we can add in to really show them what it looked like in their new space. That would be the time to add some of that stuff in. Yeah, as to really like really hammer home the whole process part of design.

Aaron
Great.

Logan Shinholser
Basically you’re trying to show this is the exact process this client went through. Then you go into, here’s some of the final project photos that we did. Really highlighting what you did, what, you know, like it really makes it pop. We will also show off some of the cool features. So we’ll. We just started doing this as well where it’s like you have like a still image of the space itself which with these like little hotspots that like you can hover over and it might be like a pocket door that the door’s open in the photo so you can’t see it. But if you hover over this little hotspot, it’ll pop up and say we used a pocket door here to save space in the bathroom. So you’re able to like either highlight, you know, the features that you did.

Logan Shinholser
So if you really want to push a certain line of cabinetry or tile or whatever that is, you can do it there. You can also do it for an education piece to say, this is what we did here and here’s why. And we love to round it out with a testimonial and then some additional information around the project as far as like maybe why, if it went over budget, why it did, if it went over timeline, why it did things like that. So basically you’re trying to take them through everything that you would like them to know about that individual project in a way that is designed beautifully so that they want to read it.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah, like we just had a new website designer started at CGN and I was basically showing him the difference of our feature project pages versus just a random person’s. And a lot of the information was similar. I mean the other ones didn’t have like all the story driven stuff, but a lot of it, like the way that we set it up was it’s very, goes back and forth of images and text and nice design and features and elements on the website page itself. The other one was just a bunch of photos with just a bunch of bullet points right next to it.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
And it didn’t draw you to want to read it. It basically looked like somebody just slapped up a bunch of photos with a bunch of random text that didn’t align at all. While ours is meant to be very like here’s an image, here’s like a little description of what we did, why we did it, how it benefits you and move on.

Aaron
Yeah. Well, even like the example you were giving of, you know, scrolling over on the photo and highlighting different areas. Like that could easily be done just with photo and then bullet points next to it. But I guess in a sense like then you’re letting people come through it and maybe it’s different, it’s a little bit unique compared to what they’re used to seeing. And so now they’re getting that information. Whereas do they might have skipped over a bullet point? Is that kind of the.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah. And the bullet points, the one that I’m like in my head I see the exact page that went through, there was no connection. There’s basically, they were just like, it was just a bunch of random stuff that they did with just a bunch of random photos that like had no connection to the photo. So it wasn’t like here’s the bathroom, here’s four bullet points that says these are the things that we did. Because just that is gonna be way better than not having anything. But like we just take it to the next degree to go look like for example, let’s say you are a technology forward remodeling company. Like you use a project management software, you have a CRM, you like to do things through automation. Well, you want to then get that point across on the website.

Logan Shinholser
And how do you do that? Make it a little more techy, have those hotspots that you can hover over. It also makes it more interactive for the prospect going through it, which makes it a little bit more fun compared to just a bunch of bullet points that again, you’re still getting the information across. But are you getting it across in a way that excites the prospect?

Aaron
Yeah. Okay, so what I’m getting from this is like you thinking about from the very beginning. You have this list of information, basically you need to get to them, but you can’t just write out and get it to them. It’s all about how are you doing it? Are you answering their questions in the order that they’re having? They’re being raised basically. How easily are they able to find the information? Are they enjoying going through the website? Is it making them excited? Yes. Okay.

Logan Shinholser
And it’s basically you’re getting like we do this podcast because like a lot of our clients, they drive around a lot.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
They’re in the trucks a lot. They’re podcast people. Could we take this, turn it into a transcript, print it out and send out a 40 page document? Yes, sure. Dude. Are people gonna consume it in a way that is like, oh, this is great, that’s probably not the best way. So it’s basically you’re trying to take the information that you will that let’s say a referral is gonna understand when they walk through that bathroom that their friends, like we just redid our bathroom, come check this thing out. You’re trying to get that information across.

Logan Shinholser
But you’re really giving a lot of energy and effort and thought into these projects by the way that you’re showing them online because like the same way that when you build out a really nice bathroom or a really nice kitchen or a whole home and then you just do iPhone photos, it just not only does it lose the appeal and the allure of this stuff, it also just, you look like you don’t really care about the projects very much. Cause you’re just like, well, I’m just gonna take some quick photos and move on to the next project.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
And if that is how you approach it, that’s fine. But you’re gonna probably be seen more as like a high production, high volume remodeler versus like somebody that’s gonna stop and do things the, you know, like more elegant, higher end way which when you come in and do professional photography, it shows like, okay, they’re going to make this thing a masterpiece. They’re not just gonna stop and move on to the next one.

Aaron
Yeah. Okay, so if we’re answering all those questions on the featured project page, like where do you want the homeowner to go from there? It seems like we’re answering them all right there. So why not just have those pages and a contact page fill out our form, like homepage, feature, project page, contact page, that’s the whole website.

Logan Shinholser
Because that’s one project. Yeah, that’s just one. So it’s like interviewing somebody to come like work here. And I’m like, alright, Aaron, walk me through a video project that you did and you walk me through the full thing. I’m like, that sounds great. That could have been, you know, it’s a one off that. You just nailed it on that one. But like you sucked on the other 20 projects that you’ve done.

Aaron
So, okay, so you’re saying have multiple.

Logan Shinholser
Projects, you want to have multiple projects that get that point across.

Aaron
But even outside of that, why not just have featured project pages, like 10 of those? Why even have a process page or a services page, about us page?

Logan Shinholser
Yeah. So there’s going to be two different reasons. One is gonna be for the education and like nurturing side, and one of it’s gonna be for an SEO purpose. Okay, so let’s just stick on like the education and nurturing side. So let’s say you have the feature project page. Why not just move forward from there? Because in that design process on that page, we want that page. The whole goal of that page is to show off the project. It’s not to show off the process, it’s not to show off the backstory. It’s not like that those are elements within it. But it’s almost like 70, 30, 70 being the end product that makes you excited and want that in your home. 30 is. This is who they are. This is how we got here. This is what it costs, things like that.

Logan Shinholser
Okay, you want to get the other pieces, the 30%, which is the education stuff, that is where service pages come in, that is where process pages come in. That is where we do a lot more of the education. So that those project pages are meant to really just get the homeowner the prospect that’s searching on it, emotionally bought in, going, I want this in my home first and foremost. And I understand enough about the company from a ballpark money perspective, what their capabilities are, how they approach things, what their process looks like, where this thing was done. So hopefully that person goes, okay, I can entertain potentially working with this company. But before we even do that, all we want them to do is get to the next page.

Aaron
Okay, okay. So that page is. It’s kind of giving an overview of those other things. It has one purpose, which is showing them that project and giving them buy in that you did that project well and that’s similar to what you want. But then if they want more information on the process or pricing, they’ll probably need to go to those pages. Go to those pages. And that’s where you talked about like the linking.

Logan Shinholser
The linking. So you want it on that page. Let’s say you have on the process section, like three step process. How do we do this thing. Step one was went through an intense design process. We actually figured out what they wanted in the bathroom and how we approached it. Step two, we’ll say in this case was we actually did the construction on it. They had to move out for this project. It was a larger project. Step three was we did the final punch list and walkthrough of it. They checked everything. It looked great, and now they’re in their own bathroom. Well, step one was design. You don’t want to dive super deep into the entire design process of this stuff. You just want enough to wet the palate of the person.

Logan Shinholser
But what you can do is, right below that, add a link that says, hey, if you’re curious to see how design works at our company, click this link. And that’ll take you over to the design page that’s meant to be in depth about design.

Aaron
Okay, but, yeah, then you’re not boring the people who don’t have that question immediately, but you’re the ones who want it. You’re giving them immediate route to get there.

Logan Shinholser
Immediate. And for some people, maybe they scroll through the rest of the page and then come back up and go, okay, now I want to learn more about design. Yeah, same thing on, hey, you know, now we did this project. It took X long. They actually had to move out. Little link that says, are you curious to see how we handle the experience during the construction? And that will take you to the, like, a page that we started doing called, like, the inside your remodel. And basically it talks through. You know, these are all the concerns that homeowners have that stops them from wanting to start a remodeling project. Like, I remember when we did a project, I told my neighbor, like, oh, we’re doing a project. First thing he said was, well, whatever they told you, double the budget and double the timeline.

Logan Shinholser
And I was like, wow, okay. So that really is, like, how people think about this stuff.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
So basically, if you want people to know, hey, I’m good with my timelines. I’m good with the safety side of things. I’m good with communication. Well, what we want to do is we want to build out a page that actually walks through. These are the concerns that you. We know you have. Like, the construction industry. The only industry that’s, like, more.

Aaron
Untrusted.

Logan Shinholser
Untrusted is used cars. That’s, like, the number one thing. And I think CarMax has done a really good job of flipping that on its head.

Aaron
But construction, snake oil salesmen.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah, they’re probably number one But I don’t think those are around very much anymore.

Aaron
They used to be.

Logan Shinholser
They used to be a lot. But the construction sides, like, what are you actually doing in the home? Like, if you’re like, we do really good project management, we’re gonna have a weekly walkthrough. We’re going to. I mean, like, on our edition that we’re getting done right now, I get a daily log. It’s great. It’s got a couple photos that says, here’s what this is. Here’s what we did today. Here’s what time the crew is showing up tomorrow, or they’re not showing up until two days later. We’re in the know the whole time. It’s great.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
That is something that if I have gone through a bad remodel or if I’m somebody that is not super trusting, or if I have kids in the house and I need to know, do I need to get the family out of the house for the day or not? Like, those are things that help me feel better that we want to then proactively highlight on the website as well. So if somebody does have concerns of, you know, hey, I’ve always heard that, you know, like, you just can’t trust them. And no matter what, like, you’re going to have issues or budget, you know, problems or things like that, what are you doing to proactively address those things? And that’s like a big part of, like, why with us at cgn, like, we’re not good.

Logan Shinholser
If somebody just starts a business and now they’re like, hey, I want you to help me market it. Because we need to know a lot of those things that you’re doing offline that people really like to be able to then turn around and say, let’s build everything around that.

Aaron
Yeah. So if they already need to have that unique selling proposition, ideal client, kind of, even if they don’t know exactly what it is, they need to have one.

Logan Shinholser
That’s mostly what it is. Most people don’t know what it is. But if we’re like, what do you do to communicate? And they’re like, well, I just communicate. We’re like, well, do you have, like, meetings with clients? They’re like, not really. And I’m like, okay, how are you communicating? Like, are you using a software? No, I just kind of just call them, like. Or I just, you know, whenever they call me, I just make sure I respond within 72 hours. Typically, that’s not going to be something that gets a lot of referrals, but it’s also something that’s very hard to build out. Like, hey, if you’re worried about communication, don’t worry. As long as you call us, we’ll call you back in three days. Like, that’s not going to bode well. And we don’t want to lie on the website.

Logan Shinholser
So typically that’s somebody that we would just say, hey, look, I don’t think this is gonna be the right fit because there’s nothing special, there’s nothing that makes you stand out. It is what it is. Sorry about that. Like, but, you know, you just maybe need to have a much higher volume of leads come through the door.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
But what we’re gonna be able to be good at is not that. So you want to have other pages on the website for that education and nurturing side. But then the flip side of that is going to be your SEO purposes.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
So let’s now take. For each service that you actually provide, you want to actually have a page on your website that talks about providing that service. Google wants to see that. Like, Google’s super smart, but they also aren’t mind readers. You need to give it the right information to say, this is the services that we provide. We do kitchens, we do baths, we do home additions, we do basements, and we do whole home remodels.

Aaron
Yeah, perfect.

Logan Shinholser
You want to have a page for each of those things. That way you’re able to say to Google, because the way that people want to consume information around, hey, what’s your service look like for kitchen remodels? They’re going to want to know, these are the types of problems that I have in my kitchen. What do you do to address it? And can you actually show me that you’re able to address those things? Yeah. Next is going to be like, what’s the process look like? How long is it going to take? What does this stuff cost? I have a bunch of random questions like, are you going to be there every day? Are you going to get permits during all this stuff?

Logan Shinholser
What happens if, you know, you knock down a wall and it’s load bearing, you didn’t know it was load bearing, or whatever that is. All of those things that people are wondering. Those all need to be on each of those individual service pages related to that individual service itself.

Aaron
Because it almost sounds like where the feature project pages are divvying up based on, like, their story, their life stage. This is doing the same thing, but for their location and, like, the service. Yeah. Like, I know Joe Fry specifically One of our clients we had, he did a bathroom remodel. And, like, one of the weird things that was included in hers was, like, the cabinet or the countertop height was lower than average. Well, it turns out there’s a builder in the area doing a bunch of those. And so in that area specifically, this is a niche example. Super niche. But it was, like, for that area specifically, that was. Somebody watched the video, was like, yes, I have the exact same problem. Our countertops aren’t that same. Are too low as well. We got to get that fixed. Is that.

Logan Shinholser
Yes. So basically, you want to talk through, like, these are some of the problems that you may have. So let’s say your ideal client is a growing family. Your big thing is gonna be functionality in the space. Actual, like, space in the space. So let’s say that’s who you’re really going after. Cause that’s, like, really what you’re good at. The website needs to talk a lot through. Like, this is. Hey, if you have this house, this type of house, like, this is how we want to approach it. Like, we’re very good about having, like, a breakfast bar right there. So that way the whole family can hang out around the space. We have custom cabinetry because, you know, if you’re trying to make quick dinners, you probably have a lot of appliances.

Logan Shinholser
Well, we can make you an appliance garage to make sure that it still looks good without having all these appliances all over the place. So that’s where those feature project pages, like, are going to talk about specific examples. But those service pages, each one is going to talk about, basically, what are the problems that people are having in that room in their home that they want to address? How do you address it? And then overall, what does it look like? What are your price points? Which is going to be kind of like a. A range of what you’re showing off on your feature project pages. Because not every kitchen is going to be the exact same dollar amount. So you want to give those ranges. You want to talk through what the process looks like.

Logan Shinholser
So let’s say for the design, do you do a certain type of design for just a bathroom versus a whole home or home edition? Is it different? Because if it is, you want to talk about that right there on the bathroom page as well. On, like, the. You know, if it’s step one is design, step two is the construction of it. On kitchens. If you’re doing, like, a temporary kitchen, talk about that and show off what a temporary kitchen looks like. If you’re doing a whole Home. And you basically always require clients to move out of the house.

Logan Shinholser
You need to address it or you want to address it right there and talk about like, hey, like if you’re like, there was a, there’s a guy named Jef Forward up in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and they actually have a, like a rental property that if they’re doing a whole home, like you’re able to like go into that rental property of theirs.

Aaron
That’s dope.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah, it’s like super nice because like a big concern. Like if, right now, if I said, all right, Aaron, you’ve got two young kids, you need to move out of the house for eight months while we do your space.

Aaron
Like, where are you going to go? That’s going to suck for my parents.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it’s like, you know, you have to find a space and then deal with all that versus like, hey, we actually have a space that’s like pretty well priced. It’s nice. You’re gonna be able to live in it for the eight months. Like, what a good deal. So it’s like stuff like that. So it’s basically what you want to do specific to each of those services. Google absolutely loves it because you’re actually able to solve people’s problems by explaining what you do. Google sees how long you’re actually people are on those pages. People also like them because you’re speaking directly to the problems that they’re dealing with.

Logan Shinholser
You’re just doing it on those individual service pages a little bit more high level in the sense of, you know, on that kitchen page, like you want to know what types of kitchens or what styles do you build in. Back to that modern versus transitional versus traditional. You would be able to talk about that on that page versus on the feature project page. If it was a traditional kitchen, you would just say, this is a traditional kitchen and that’s it. So now you’re actually able to like answer some more of those questions.

Aaron
Okay, that makes sense. When you first started talking about, I thought you were talking about service location pages one specifically, like kitchen remodeling in this specific area.

Logan Shinholser
That’s more of an SEO play.

Aaron
Okay.

Logan Shinholser
For right now, all I’m really talking through is the main. When you get on the website and you’re like, oh, what services do they provide? Kitchen, you know, kitchen, bath, basement, like that kind of stuff.

Aaron
Okay, okay, I’m with you now.

Logan Shinholser
So those pages, those are ones that like our pages are very long, they’re very in depth. They have a lot of images on them. They also have A lot of text on them. We used to do it where it was kind of like, here’s an image and then here’s like a feel good story piece of it. But basically the more that we have high quality, professionally shot images that are staged and they look nice, that’s the story. Yeah, that when people look at that, they go, wow, that looks good. And then we just want text that basically says, this is how we solve this type of problem. This is how we approach it. You can even see in the photo to the right of us, that’s, you know, proof that stuff happens.

Logan Shinholser
Okay, so all those pages that we’re talking about, which are going to be your homepage when they first come in, goal of the homepage is just to get people to the next page. Next page in our case is going to be feature project page. Those pages are meant to really get people bought in, but then allow them to get to the next page. Then for the next page, it could be the design page that talks all through design. It could be the service page that talks through about that specific service. Could be the inside your remodel page. It could be the about us page. It could be, you know, a pricing page where you actually have, hey, if you’re curious to see what it costs to remodel your kitchen here in Charlotte, here’s all the factors.

Logan Shinholser
And you talk through what goes into it, why some people are high, why some people are low. We build out custom calculators that are also like, hey, you can actually price these things out yourself just to give yourself a ballpark range. So there’s like elements like that people are able to like, choose their own path where they’re able to constantly get educated on not only the industry itself, but also like how stuff works, but then also nurtured where they’re able to identify, okay, this is the company that I want to work with. This is who I want.

Aaron
Yeah. Okay. So even like from the beginning of this conversation, were thinking about, like, just thinking about, like, here’s a list of information. But now I’m kind of seeing it based on what you’re talking about as like somebody’s coming to your website with questions. And the whole point of the website is to answer their questions as effectively and easily for them as possible. They shouldn’t have to try and search for something. It should be readily available to them. It should be made, you know, the examples should be given, like, instead of you just throwing out a claim of we have a good process, show them what the process is show examples, show photos, that kind of stuff.

Logan Shinholser
Yes. And it’s doing it in the way that it makes sense.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
But it’s also doing it in a way that it continues to excite them.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
So, like, what I would love in the future is like, if we have a client that has maybe like, let’s say 30, 40 future project pages, where it’s a bunch of different projects, we’re able to say, hey, you want to, like, see a project that aligns with what you’re looking for? Here’s like a mini quiz that could show like, do you like these types of colors or these types of colors? Perfect. It’s like a fun buzz style thing. But eventually, instead of being like, you know, at the end of it’s not like, hey, which guy from the OC are you? It’s more like what type of project aligns with what you’re looking for or.

Aaron
Shows you a project that’s exactly tailored to like, here’s the concerns I have, here’s where I live, here’s what I’m hoping to have done. Here’s basically my exact project just in somebody else’s home.

Logan Shinholser
Exactly. Yeah. So it’s basically. And that’s all the AI stuff that’s like, why we’re, like going all in on that. Because AI is basically your way of getting to the information faster because they’re doing a lot of the heavy lifting for you. So now you’re really trying to, like, just get to that quicker on the website. So it’s still like, we’re about to roll out on a couple people like these, like, are you. Are we the right fit? Or like our overall philosophy page. And those are meant to really be, like, when you get to the homepage, you can either see the feature project pages or see a button that says, like, are we the right fit? And we’ll see if all this stuff works. But I feel we’re gonna do it for cgn, so I feel very good on it for clients.

Logan Shinholser
But it’s basically like, here’s a very quick overview. Like, we’re not the best fit for everybody. For some people, we’re the perfect fit. And the goal of this page is to basically explain our overall approach, our methodology compared to some other methodologies, and just tell you which one you know may be a best fit for you. Talk a little bit about the services we provide, the locations that we have. So that’s meant to be like the way that I envision it is like the directory that when you get to the mall you really just want to see, like, either, you know, the exact store that you want to go to, or you’re like, oh, I need new clothes. You then sort by clothes.

Logan Shinholser
Then you figure out, okay, that one’s maybe a little bit too far, but this one’s way closer because, like, they’re both department stores. Which one? You know what’s more impactful for me? Do I want to go to Nordstrom, or do I just want to go to Belkin? Because Belk’s right here. But Nordstrom is much nicer. Yeah. So that’s how I see that page is like a way to come in and kind of really help again, link out to all these different things. So it’s like, this is basically like, here’s a couple project examples. We like to build in this style, and this style. And then that way, if it’s that same modern, traditional, transitional, they can be able to click over to that exact feature project page from this page.

Logan Shinholser
So we’re constantly building out for better, for worse new stuff that’s like, how can we get the right pathway for homeowners to actually go from page to page? Spend more time on the website, spend more time being engulfed in what our clients are able to do, which ultimately makes them more excited to then want to move forward. That is the big thing here. And then the flip side of this stuff is, like, once you get more of that information out there, all the new. It’s good for Google, but all the new AI stuff really likes it.

Logan Shinholser
Because we talked about this before, but like that during construction or inside your remodel page, if you’re able to say, hey, if you’ve got kids and you’re worried about that, here are some of the things that we actually do to make sure that we protect your kids. Well, the AI stuff can pick up on that. As long as the website’s built correctly.

Aaron
It reads through it.

Logan Shinholser
It reads through it. So now when Aaron says, who do I hire for my remodeling project? Well, it knows you’ve got two young kids and, you know, both remodelers look the same, but one talks extensively around, this is how we keep the job site Safe.

Aaron
And then ChatGPT or whatever LLM they’re.

Logan Shinholser
Going to pick up on and go, well, this is going to be the best option. I mean, Google does that now. Like, Google is trying to give you the best options based off your previous searches. I mean, they have. They Predict like, over 2 million data points on each person. Yeah. Across everything. So it’s trying to give you the most relevant things now, but AI is just like on a whole different level. So eventually I really believe like in the next five years it’s going to be like you pop into like your ChatGPT or your Gemini or whatever that is and say, I’m looking for a remodeler, who should I go with? And it’s going to know so much about you and it’s now just going to be a game of like, can we connect your website to what they’re looking for?

Logan Shinholser
And then once they get on your website, can we then get them to the right information as fast as possible?

Aaron
Great. Okay.

Logan Shinholser
So that is how we want to approach the website from like a. How do we build it? So if you’re sitting here going, well, that’s a lot of stuff. Like what? How do I know if my stuff’s working well or not? Basically think about like the idea of like what information do you want people to know about your company before reaching out?

Aaron
And then going through your website with that lens and being like, how easily can I find these answers? What answer do I find next? Is that good enough? That kind of stuff.

Logan Shinholser
Yes. And then from there, once you are able to solve that stuff, the next piece is okay, great. Am I doing it in a way that aligns with my brand? Because like we’ve, we looked at somebody else’s like as a whole team and said like this company, this remodeling company has a really good education library. But yeah, one of the things was okay if you looked at their education library versus maybe one that we do, even if they have better information or more information, the presentation of it was far inferior to ours.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Where ultimately this is still a performance.

Aaron
This is still, you’re in a design focused industry.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah.

Aaron
Showing that in every aspect of what you do. Correct.

Logan Shinholser
So you still need to make sure that like, I mean this was like all of like what Steve Jobs did with Apple where it was like function follows form. Like it’s got to be easy, it’s got to look good. Like it’s, you know, you basically like this stuff has to be pretty. That’s why all the different Apple products, like they all have the same curve of like the corner and like you don’t really notice it but like you just notice it’s a good looking phone compared to some of the other stuff that’s out there. That’s like the user interface for like android’s just not as good.

Aaron
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
As a whole. So it still needs to look really good in the. Especially the higher end that you go, the more that it needs to really align with, like, okay, this is the brand that I want. We’ve dealt with this with clients where they’re like, I want to be seen as high end. I want to be seen as, like, good communication, that my team is friendly. And my we, you know, we use these project management softwares. Well, that’s a lot of different things that you want to get across. And instead of, you know, telling people all these things, that’s great. But you also want to show it to them. And the easiest way to do that is make sure that the brand and everything that you’re showing off aligns with those pieces.

Aaron
Great. Awesome. So then it’s only as good as the traffic getting to the site, getting people actually there, which would be next week’s topic.

Logan Shinholser
Yep. Next time we’re talking about how do you actually get people to the website? Because ultimately this is great. This is like the way that I explain this is like you just remodeled the inside of your store, but if nobody’s out front spinning a sign or you’re running radio ads to get people into the store, now when they’re in the store, they’re going to have a much better approach to actually, like, wanting to buy. So, like, you know, conversion rates and like, getting people to actually convert from, like, oh, wow, this looks good, to an actual lead. A good website will help out with that thing.

Aaron
Okay.

Logan Shinholser
But as far as, like, getting people to the website, that stuff’s not super important unless you have enough people actually coming to the site to be able to find you. Like, we didn’t talk about, like, assignment selling, using the website and stuff like that, which I think would be like a separate topic. But we’ll talk about how do you actually get people to the website next. Because this is all great, but ultimately, if nobody knows that you exist, you have this beautiful paperweight and that’s all it is.

Aaron
Yeah, yeah. It doesn’t matter.

Logan Shinholser
Cool, cool. All right, all right, guys. Think about the questions that you want people to know about. What makes them a high quality lead. Reverse that into, okay, now how am I actually educating around these things? And then when you look at your website, are you delivering that information in the right order with the right amount of, like, concrete information in a way that still gets people excited to either move up or move out?

Aaron
Great.

Logan Shinholser
All right, cool. Next time.

Aaron
See you guys.