Understanding the Buyer’s Journey (Feat. Ian Miclean)

Logan Shinholser
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Contractor Growth Network podcast. I’m Logan Shinholser, and today I am joined by our director of marketing here at CGN, Ian Miclean. Now, we’re talking all about your customer’s journey. You’re actually getting a really good behind the scenes look at what you really need to understand from a marketing perspective for your business. And I have Ian joining us because he’s like a marketing savant at all of this stuff. So he’ll be here to really explain it in detail what you need to be doing to better your company from a marketing standpoint. And it all starts with your customers journey. Let’s jump in. How did I do on that intro?

Ian Miclean
Yeah, you did great. I don’t know if savant feels a bit generous. It’s pretty good, but I appreciate the compliment either way.

Logan Shinholser
So what we’re talking about today is the whole idea of the customer’s journey and what that really means in your mind, Ian, what is the buyer’s journey? The customer, are they the same thing? Like, what is that?

Ian Miclean
Yeah, the customer journey is the path, essentially, that people take on their way to buying a product or a service. So there’s a lot of things that go into the customer journey. Those can be ads, those can be emails, those can be Google searches, they can be conversations with salespeople. They can be all sorts of stuff. But really, essentially, the buyer’s journey is all of the interactions that a consumer has with a brand that lead them on that journey to buying a service or a product.

Logan Shinholser
And why is it important for us to be talking about this?

Ian Miclean
Because a lot of people don’t really understand how it works. I think a lot of. There’s a lot of misconceptions out there about how advertising and marketing actually works. A lot of people think about it in terms of tactics. They’re like, I do ads or I do SEO, or I have a website, or I do social media.

Ian Miclean
Right?

Ian Miclean
And what they are not proactively thinking about is how people actually experience any of those things, how often they’re seeing those things, how often they’re seeing different representations of the company in different platforms. And that leads to this misrepresentation or misunderstanding, thinking, well, I’m doing marketing stuff and it’s not working the way I wanted it to, but there’s a lack of clarity on why that is. And I think a big piece of that is founded in the idea that people are looking for a one off solution, not recognizing that the buyer’s journey is comprised of a ton of different interactions that are happening in different places at different times. And the path that somebody takes to get to that purchasing decision sometimes is a really long time. Right.

Ian Miclean
So it’s critical that you have an understanding of the experience that a buyer has on their way to your product because it gives you clarity of where you should be spending your money, but also what you should be expecting out of those different advertising activities that you’re doing.

Logan Shinholser
So it sounds like, to me like what you’re almost describing is you need to have empathy for what your customer is going through at different points in their life and whether they’re ready to buy your product or service now or they’re still so early on that they don’t even know that your product exists. It almost sounds like you need to, like, recognize that not everybody is ready to go with their credit cards out right now.

Ian Miclean
Oh, 100%. I mean, starting out, all marketing should be based on knowledge of and care for your consumer, right? If you don’t know who you are talking to, if you don’t know where they are at in the buying process, if they don’t know, if you don’t know how they perceive you or your product or your brand, sending a message to them that’s going to be compelling is almost impossible, right? Most people are not ready to buy your product. The overwhelming majority of people, a few people are aware that they may need your product. And an even smaller subset of those people have decided that your product is the one that they’re going to buy.

Ian Miclean
But if you’re only speaking to people that have their credit card out, you’re speaking to this tiny segment of the market and you’re leaving alone all of the people that could potentially be your consumer one day. So when you’re spending your dollars, some of those marketing dollars are not going to go to a ad or a email or something that’s going to have this direct conversion. Some of that money is going to seem like it’s just going to go out into the air. But what it’s really doing is meeting people that are in that educational stage. People need to be exposed to your brand a ton of times in order to get comfortable with you. They may not even know that they need your product because they may have never heard of it.

Ian Miclean
But if you don’t start telling them about it at some point, they’re never going to get to that place where they’re down there ready to buy your product. So.

Logan Shinholser
So talk to me about, like, I know when I first learned, you know, marketing 101, all the aida, you know, awareness, interest, desire, action, which is that idea of, like, the marketing funnel, if you will. But then when you got down, like, this idea of, like, the, you know, sticky braining, which is like, the nineties, the seven and the three, which the nineties, like, they don’t. They’re not ready to buy anything at all. 7% of people are like, actually, they know they have an issue and they’re starting to do some research, and then 3% of people are actually ready to buy right. Now. Can you talk about just different stages of the buyer’s journey that we should all be aware of?

Ian Miclean
For sure? Yeah, you talked about two different concepts in there. So there’s that 97 three concept, which comes from that book sticky branding, which is a good concept for the broader market ecosystem. So essentially, it’s the same thing that I was just discussing a second ago. Not everybody, in fact, the overwhelming majority of people are not ready to buy your product. The 97 three principle essentially says that top 10% are the people that are in that phase of somewhere on their way to buying, right? That 7% they’re considering, they’re thinking about their options. They’re looking at companies. Those 3%, those are the people that are truly ready. They’re like, hey, it’s time. I’m ready to buy. I need a solution. But, right. That distribution should tell you something.

Ian Miclean
Right?

Ian Miclean
If the principle is that 90% of people are not ready to engage with your product at all, that means 90% of the people that potentially could be your consumer are not in that stage where they’re ready for that ad that says buy now, right? What they’re ready for is exposure to your product, exposure to your brand, exposure to who you are, right. You need to work with those people to start to build trust, to start to make them like you, to get them exposed to your product, to get them engaged with your brand name, so that by the time they get to that stage where they’re ready to make that conversion, you’re the first person that they look for, or at least you’re in the mixed. The other concept is the sort of buyer’s journey, traditional stuff, which is awareness, desire, and then conversion.

Ian Miclean
Right?

Ian Miclean
And so that is an older concept. And honestly, that really sticks in that top 10% of that broader 97 three stuff, right? So awareness means they’re aware of the problem, aware of product, aware of their need.

Ian Miclean
Right?

Ian Miclean
And if you only think about your marketing in those terms of awareness, consideration, decision, you have a problem because you’re sticking yourself in that top 10% and you’re saying, I’m only going to market to those that are in this small segment. And it’s not like that’s something you can neglect. That’s still important, but that is only a portion of your marketing efforts. Those are going to be the ones that are the easiest to track in terms of ROI, because those are the people that convert. When somebody’s in that top 10% is in that consideration decision phase, it’s much easier to send them a targeted ad that says, hey, here’s 20% off this thing that you already know. You want to have them click on that, fill out a contact form. You’re like, hey, there’s my ROI.

Ian Miclean
So a lot of people, they get stuck thinking I have to only spend on these things where I have this provable direct ROI. Because from a number standpoint, it kind of makes sense. But they’re neglecting how people get into that market space. So you have to do the job of nurturing those 90% into that stage where they’re ready for those directed sales based marketing activities. And a big piece of that is just exposing them to the product in your brand.

Logan Shinholser
So when you’re talking about, like, exposing the product in your brand, would that be categorized under, like, the awareness stage.

Ian Miclean
Like what you’re talking about, it’s getting them to the awareness stage, to be honest.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
So the awareness consideration decision stuff that really is in the people that are in that buying step, right. The 90% of people, they’re not there yet, right. Some of them are on the verge of it, but a lot of what you’re trying to do in that 90% space is just let them know that you existed. Let them know that you’re a reliable source for this thing. They might be the type of consumer that would buy your product. You may know some general things like they’re homeowners and they live in this general area and they kind of like the outdoors or whatever. It depends on what you’re selling. And so you know that those people are in your market, but many of them are not going to be problem aware. Many of them are going to be like, hey, you know what?

Ian Miclean
The thing I’ve got works, or the thing I’ve got kind of works, but I. The problems with it are not sufficient that I’m really looking for a solution.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
Some of them are going to be at that stage of like, oh, I’m really annoyed with this thing. It’s got all these issues, but they’re still not actively looking. And so what you need to do is consistently expose yourself to those people that could potentially be clients so that when they get to that place of true frustration of actually having a problem, and they move up to that awareness stage of, like, I have an issue that I want solved. Your name is in the mix when they’re doing that research.

Logan Shinholser
Talk to me about what problem aware means in layman’s terms. Cause I think that’s a huge point that most people don’t like, I talked to a guy one time that he was a roofer, and I was like, well, like, how big of a market is there in your area for roofing? He’s like, well, there’s like 5 million people that live in the metro area, so there should be 5 million customers. And I was like, oh, boy. Okay, so what is problem aware mean?

Ian Miclean
I mean, that’s a great example, because I don’t think about my roof, just to be completely honest, which I probably should. I work in a construction related marketing industry, but I don’t. It doesn’t occur to me, right. And I won’t really know that I have a problem until it sort of screams in my face. You might look around the neighborhood and be like, oh, this one’s missing tiles, and this one’s, I don’t know, clearly got a leak that’s developing or whatever. That’s not. That’s not salient to me. I don’t know any of that. I’m not interested in learning about it. I’m not going to go out of my way to seek it until there’s water pouring through my roof.

Ian Miclean
Right?

Ian Miclean
So that’s a slightly different situation, because roofing sort of stuff, when there’s damage to the house, that becomes a need. Need based marketing is very different than want base marketing, for instance, because once there’s water dripping through my ceiling, okay, now I know I have a problem. I need to go find a solution. But at that point, right when I go out searching, there’s. There’s two situations I could be in. I could either be in the situation where it’s like, I have never heard of any roofing companies. I’m just gonna start looking. I’m gonna pick one at random. Or if you’ve done your job correctly as a roofing contractor, I’ve maybe seen you around. I’ve seen your trucks, I’ve seen your signs. I have seen an ad from you. I have. Right. Heard your name around town.

Ian Miclean
And all of a sudden, when I go to do that search, when I go to begin that process, what do I do first? I look up your name.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
So part of it, I mean, and that’s really the big thing about knowing the buyer’s journey, is if you have that awareness of, like, where you need to meet people, it’s easier than to say I was like, okay, like, I’m spending these dollars towards reaching these people. Yeah, they’re not ready. They’re not. They don’t have a leak in their roof yet, but they’re going to get there someday. When it comes to want based stuff, it’s a little bit different.

Logan Shinholser
It’s even want based remodeling landscape and things that, like, if you have a hole in your roof, you’re going to get somebody right now. But if your kitchen is outdated, you’re not just going to wake up and go, ooh, this is outdated. I got 200 grand. I got to spend it right now.

Ian Miclean
Correct. Really, it comes down to, do I have the resources and is this important to me? But even then, it’s going to take me a long time to make that decision because there’s no pressure. So there’s no point at which I need my landscaping done. Every day. I can wake up, I walk in and out of my house. The lawn may look ugly, but it doesn’t really hurt me in any way. It might be ugly, but I don’t need it to change. So a big part of marketing that kind of product is exposing people to the desire for it. So you want people to see what it is like to have this thing that they kind of think that they want and let that desire build up. The best way to, again, is just expose it to them over and over again.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
Show people using your product. Show beautiful photos. Put those ads in front of them. Make sure that they’re seeing it. Leave the door hanger on their door when their neighbor gets their yard done. Right. Make sure that they are exposed to that product and then expose them to what it’s like to have it.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
So tell your consumer stories. If you have people that are really loving their new landscaping and they’re like, oh, my goodness, it’s doing all these great things. We’re having people come over to the house, we’re barbecuing more. The kids are coming and swimming in a pool. Tell that story and share it with people, because people will begin to sort of imagine their life with your product. And the moment that they do that, they commit to that idea of, oh, I really want that lifestyle. Then that decision becomes much easier.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
That $200,000 is significantly easier to spend because I’m already bought in emotionally to the idea of it.

Logan Shinholser
So this, to me is, it’s like, the idea of, like, these different industries. Like, I see it all the time in, like, these Facebook groups where it’s like, oh, my buddy that owns a contracting company, they spend $50 a month on Google Ads or Facebook ads, and they get all these leads in. And then when we actually look at it, we’re like, okay, first off, is it the same industry? And they’re like, no. Well, I’m a home builder, and they are a plumber. And it’s like, okay, well, when you start to look at who they’re going, yeah, it’s completely different.

Logan Shinholser
And a lot of this, like, the easiest way that I try to explain it is either one where I talk about, you know, when you drive to the car lot and you want to potentially get a new car, if you drive there in a current car that’s just maybe a few years old, that’s a very different buying process compared to if you had to have your spouse or your buddy drive you because you don’t have a car and you need to get to work tomorrow. So the way that you’re going to buy is completely different. But it’s also, like, in the remodeling, landscaping pond, like, that high end world, like, when it comes to, like, that Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, which is really, people are gonna fulfill, like, their first base level.

Ian Miclean
They’re gonna drink water before they buy a nice shirt.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah. And if your power is out, like, you’re gonna do everything you can to get it back on before you start to think about, like, remodeling your kitchen.

Ian Miclean
Yeah. Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
So when it comes to, like, the exposure, what are some things that, like, I guess, in your world that you buy that, like, you have seen tons of this stuff before you even consider buying it.

Ian Miclean
Yeah. I actually have a really good example of this. Don’t know if anyone’s aware, but if you’ve heard of Doctor Sasquatch soap. Yeah. So, I mean, they do a really good job of their broader advertising. I do buy their product now. I do feel like I kind of got tricked into it because I have seen hundreds of their ads. Hundreds of them.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
And I probably saw 30 or 40 before I clicked one. But now that I have clicked one, I bought the first soap. I liked it.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
And now I keep buying it.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
And so they SPent a lot of money exposing me to their product before I even engaged with anything.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
And I was like, you know what? Whatever. It’s soap. But I kept seeing it. I kept watching it, and eventually I made that decision. Once I exposed myself to the product, it was a good product. Now I’m hooked for life.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
So really that is honestly what you’re aiming to do with any kind of product is people’s decisions don’t happen overnight. And oftentimes they need a lot of reminders that they like something. I watched one of those ads for 5 seconds. I move on with my night. I’m not proactively thinking about it the next day, but when two days later, it shows up on my feed again, I’m like, oh, yeah, I remember. I kind of liked that ad. It was interesting. Their product seems interesting. I watched it again and I moved on again. I did that 30 times in a row before I clicked on that little link. And I went to their website and ordered some to my house. But ultimately it paid off. Right. I bought, I don’t know. I don’t know how many soaps I bought from them.

Ian Miclean
Like, it’s a lot of soap. And so at this point, right. They’ve way more than made up for the cost that they spent to acquire me. And I don’t see any reason unless somebody else does a great job of advertising something similar, right. That I’m going to go anywhere anytime soon.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
And so I will continue to pay into that system over and over again as long as they continue to produce a good product and they don’t need to advertise to me anymore.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah. One of the things I see a lot of is people, they, the way that they buy is very different than how they market and sell their own stuff. It’s like, I’ve never owned a Ford, but I’ve probably seen a thousand Ford commercials, advertisements, marketing material over 33 years. I’ve never bought one. Will I ever buy one? Maybe. I don’t know. But, like, at this point, like, love Hyundai. I’m good with Hyundai. I know what I can expect. So it’s gonna take a lot. But, like, that doesn’t mean that.

Ian Miclean
But the point is, you know their name.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I know what they are. I know what they sell. I know what benefits they have. So I know all that stuff. So it’s like, if I’m ever gonna make the switch, like, I’m not just gonna Google, like. And I think that’s what everybody thinks.

Ian Miclean
Cars near me. Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Like, yeah, like, that doesn’t, that’s not a thing, really. And the whole goal of all this buyer’s journey stuff is to do what you can to make sure that you’re getting in the very least, first crack at somebody’s attention when they’re starting to now think about, for sure, am I gonna buy? You know, do I even need this thing? Stuff like that. So it’s just not, like, just easiest thing. Like, I talked to clients about this stuff is just like, put yourselves in the shoes of, like, the last thing that you bought, like, what you saw with the soap. Like, you didn’t just google what soap is good. Like, you. You actually saw enough of their stuff, and it was engaging and it explained the benefits. And, like, then those are very funny ads.

Ian Miclean
So, like, it wasn’t even about soap. Yeah, right. All it was is they made me remember their name.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
And I think that is something that people often miss, is they’re so focused on, like, well, we do all these things and we’ve got all these features and all of these whatever, and it’s oftentimes not about that.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
It’s about the way that the advertising makes you feel.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
And so this is something that I see a lot of contractors and design build companies and remodelers fail at is like, they are not proactively thinking about what their consumer wants to feel at the end of the day.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
And they are so focused on, like, they might be a really good builder, but maybe they aren’t consciously thinking about the fact that it’s like, just because built well doesn’t mean that’s what your end user wants.

Logan Shinholser
What do you mean by that?

Ian Miclean
Honestly, design matters. That’s the main thing. Especially when you’re talking about high end clients. They do not know the difference between a well framed wall and a poorly framed wall. They do not know the difference between well installed sheetrock and poorly installed sheetrock. What they do know is that visually, what does it look like at the end? Does it look impressive? Does it look high end? Does it look like the stuff that I’ve seen in the magazines and the Instagram accounts that I follow? Does it look like the cool bathroom that my neighbor just had remodeled?

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
And so at the end of the day, what your consumer experiences isn’t all of the really skilled tradesmen that you have, which wonderful to have those. They experience the end product.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
They experience this feeling, a vibe. Honestly, at the end of the day, it’s like, do I feel comfortable in this space? Does it feel like the thing that I wanted? But so many contractors are just like, oh, yeah. Like, well, yeah, I can do it right? And they don’t proactively think about, okay, but just because I can do it doesn’t mean that this is the product that the kind of consumer I wants, or is looking for. Does that make sense?

Logan Shinholser
Yeah. So essentially what you’re saying, like, this is, like, a lot of this, and this is. I mean, yes, we want the nice stuff in there potentially, but, like, from an ad, unless you, like, I don’t like a very specific visual. You don’t really know what type of material something is made out of a lot of times. And what you can see is, like, especially, like, if I looked at, like, a car. I don’t know if the car door is plastic or if it’s actual metal or, like, you know, wood.

Ian Miclean
I just see the car.

Logan Shinholser
You see that. But, like, you can see the design of, like, what’s the body look like? What does the inside look like? I don’t know. You know, like, when I look at the ads, like, I don’t, you know, if I’m gonna go buy another car, I don’t know what is all under the quote unquote hood when it comes to, like, the, let’s say, like, the displays and stuff like that, you just see, like, what it looks like from the outside of, like, oh, that’s a cool look. That’s a big ass screen. Correct. It’s a big screen. It must have a lot of functionality to it. Kind of the same way that, like, oh, it’s really good design that must have been put together really well, for sure.

Ian Miclean
And a lot of the people that buy high end remodeling products also engage with content that is related to that. So they’re reading architectural digest, they’re looking at Instagram accounts that are interior remodeling. Like, this is something that they do for fun. People don’t just buy, right, a 60,000 $70,000 kitchen without first having romance themselves with the idea of having it, right. And a big piece of that is they are looking at what other people are doing, which means staying contemporary, staying modern with what you are doing is important for continuing to attract the kind of consumers that buy high end products. So with you as a design build professional or a modeling professional, you cannot just be a builder, right? You have to. And if this isn’t your strong suit, fine, hire a designer.

Ian Miclean
But you need to stay in touch with what people are looking for, because you could build, like, the most immaculate and perfect bathroom remodel from ten years ago design wise, and no one will want to buy it now. Because it’s outdated, it might be spot on, the tile might be perfect, the glass might be done correctly, the vanity might be installed perfectly. Everything might be flush and level and whatever you want to say. And they won’t give a shit.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
Because at the end of the day, it doesn’t look like what they were expecting to buy.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
And so when you are thinking about how you market your product, when you think, are thinking about how you do that, it’s like that’s going to influence not only like how you market, but how you build too.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
So when you are thinking about your next project, don’t just do necessarily like the easiest thing. Make it look cool. Find a way to create a focal point in that space. Proactively thinking that I’m going to take photos of this thing later. I’m going to have to do some video of this thing later.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
And I want to make sure that when I put this up as an ad, it looks like the kind of product that my next consumer is going to want to buy.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah. So my mom just read all, like, the wood floors in the house and she ripped out, like, the old carpet and put in like this really nice, like, herringbone wood. And it looks like, immaculate. Like, it just looks so nice. And I know the house obviously very well. Cause I grew up in it and I’m like, it was more of a homey house. I wouldn’t say that my parents were necessarily, like, big on the interior design. Like, they just, they didn’t really keep up with all the trends. But when I saw this, like, herringbone, I was like, damn, that’s probably, like, really nice. When you walk in there, like, you just assume everything else looks great. But, like, the way that it looked, just, I just assumed that it was also installed very well and, like, all that stuff.

Ian Miclean
So, like, and at the end of the day, you don’t really know the difference. Like, we might know more than some people being in a construction space, but it’s like, because you don’t do it. Like, the aesthetic is what’s most impactful.

Logan Shinholser
So I guess now with that being said, like, from like a tactical standpoint, what are some things if you’re in that? Because we’re going to first off, like, the design build side, then move over to the service side. But if you’re in that, they’re not even problem aware side. I know you alluded to it a little bit earlier, but if you’re in that 90% phase as a client, what should you be seeing from design, build companies from a marketing standpoint that potentially can even get you into the world at some point.

Ian Miclean
Something cool. Truly. I know that’s a trite answer, but at the end of the day, I’m not buying a remodel anytime soon. But I look at architectural digest because the house is cool. It’s cool to look at. I’m interested. I stop and I take a look and I’m like, it’s a beautiful photo. It’s a beautiful space. If I am a design build company, I’m thinking, what is the coolest product I got? I’m going to find good ways to capture that thing. I think also something that’s neglected is more lifestyle content in the space. People live in these places. It’s not just a bathroom.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
It’s someone’s bathroom.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
And again, I don’t like the whole edited in people thing, but if you can get just a video of a homeowner talking about their space or a quick shot of them using the kitchen or something like that, it adds a lot of life.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
And that photo is going to be much more dynamic than just a static photo of a kitchen or a bathroom.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
So for me, the best thing that you can do is proactively think when you’re getting this new client of, I need to get them in touch with a designer or I need to do design myself so that I’m making sure that this thing looks great and then afterwards capture it.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
That’s it.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
If you have done really good work, your advertising will be significantly easier. So stay on top of the trends. Make sure that you are proactively building projects that are going to work towards your next marketing initiative. And then capture that project in film and in photos. And if you can do it with homeowner.

Logan Shinholser
So, okay, so that, I’m guessing, checks that box of the 90%, which is showing them what life could look like. If you can get somebody in the finished project to actually show how they use it, that’s great. If not, you know, staging the place so it’s not just like, looks barren, like, you know, like that kind of stuff. Okay, so now what? What’s the next step from there? What’s the next, like, part in the buyer’s journey from a marketing standpoint?

Ian Miclean
So we’ve, at this point, we’ve exposed them to what you do, so they know what it is. They’re kind of interested. They definitely think it’s cool. Maybe they visited a landing page. They’ve engaged with some content. So we’re past that stage, they’re aware you build cool stuff.

Logan Shinholser
Yep.

Ian Miclean
Now we start to convince them that you are the person as opposed to somebody else, because there’s other people that build cool stuff. A lot of them, actually. And so this is when your customers experience is going to be critical, right? We do a lot of testimonials with people and the reason that we do those is because a company, when they’re speaking to you, there’s always this kind of assumption that they’re lying to you a little bit.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
Because who’s going to say poor things about themselves? I’m not going to go around saying CGN sucks at this, that and the other thing. And neither is any other company. And so as a consumer, there’s an innate level of distrust for any sort of marketing that a company is going to put out about themselves. But if you can get it to come from your consumer’s mouth and you can get it to come in a way that’s authentic, that’s the whole game solved, right. Because they’re just a person, right? They’re not. They don’t work for you. They work for themselves. They bought a product, they liked the product, right? And so if I can get them to articulate what they like best about it and talk about the company in a beneficial way, I don’t have that problem anymore of the lack of trust, right.

Ian Miclean
Because I’m not the one saying it anymore, Bernices. Right. I, that I think is really that critical. Next stage is this is when it involves social proof and social proof is just essentially things that people say about you and you want to do the best, your best job of communicating that authentically. And I truly believe the best way to do that is with a video because anything else is subject, again, to that lack of trust feature. Like if I tell you to give me a testimonial and you report it only to me and then I type it up and I put it on the website, right? Like, I don’t know, it could be fake. Who knows? But if I see you saying it, right, it’s different.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah, because you see a lot of people like on their websites where it’s like they have a testimonial, they’ll be like, this is Rick P. And then it’s just a very obvious stock photo of like, you know, Rick is just talking about like the grab bars installed in the bathroom, but then it’s like some photo of like a 20 year old kid and I’m like, man, this guy has really young for grab bars. But like, so there’s like, that inherent. Yeah. That makes total sense about, like, that. That trust. So then, okay, so now we have. We show them beautiful stuff and bring them more into our world, then we show them something that says, essentially, hey, from a past customer, this is what it looked like to actually work with this company. It was obviously great because they’re actually giving a testimonial.

Ian Miclean
What happens after that from there, for me, it’s offer them a discount. And it doesn’t have to be a big one. It doesn’t even have to be a real one, to be honest. You can mark the job up 10% if you need to accommodate some sort of discount. But what you need to do is give them a logical reason to move forward now.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
I don’t recommend that you do the fake. The fake discount. Like, just do a real one. It’s not going to hurt you.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
If you sell them a big project and you’re offering them 20% discount on design services.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
You’re going to make it up.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
But that psychologically, like, that price, that sticker price reduction moves people.

Ian Miclean
Right?

Ian Miclean
And so at this stage, I’ve been exposed to your product. I think it’s cool. I’ve seen a testimonial from one of your consumers saying that you guys do a great job, that you’re great people. And now I have, sitting in front of me, a reason to move forward. Now, in this moment, again, it doesn’t have to be huge. It just has to be something that feels like, oh, I’m getting something. I’m getting some benefit from clicking now as opposed to later. For me, that is really how you would move somebody down an ad funnel.

Logan Shinholser
Okay, so let’s say you get to that stage, and the whole idea is giving people a reason to move forward now. So I think that’s the one thing that a lot of people are like, well, if your leads are slow, it’s like, well, what are you doing to actually get people to move forward today versus tomorrow versus whenever? What about that notion of, well, if you give a 20% discount on design, which in the grand scheme of the whole project is a very minimal amount. It wasn’t. 20% of the whole project is just that initial piece. I said to people, and they’re like, well, I don’t want to attract that type of client that likes discounts. Talk to me about that.

Ian Miclean
Everybody likes discounts. Everyone. Everyone. My grandfather had no issues with money. He was well off. He didn’t have a problem. That man was obsessed with discounts. He would come over to our house once a week with a jar, a big gallon of Odwalla orange juice, and he would leave it on our porch. And the only reason he bought it is because it was on sale at the same grocery store every single week.

Ian Miclean
Right?

Ian Miclean
So that idea that only certain kinds of people like discounts is not accurate. Everybody likes to get something for free. And if you do a good job of highlighting the quality of your work, like, if you do immaculate work, no one’s going to think you’re cheap, right? Like, if you show what you do and it is architectural digest quality, who cares if architectural Digest is offering a 20% discount? Yes, please. I would like that. Because I already know I want the product. I already know it’s high quality. People already told me so.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
So again, it’s a flawed concept. Any company can benefit from offering a discount because all people like free things. Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
I mean. Cause, like, it’s. And the thing is, it’s like, I guess you don’t always have to give a discount.

Ian Miclean
No, no.

Logan Shinholser
You know, if you’re slammed and you can’t take on any more work, cut em off. Yeah, but I think it’s like, you know, every high end car brand, like, I don’t know if Bugatti and things that are selling, like, a $3 million car do it, but, like, Mercedes, Lexus audits, do they all. Yeah, they all. They all. I mean, they all have discounts that they run. Cause when they wanna move cars, that’s why we have, like, what was it? Like, Toyota Thon and, like, december to remember, like, all these things.

Ian Miclean
And if you think any of those people are losing money on those jobs, they’re not.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah.

Ian Miclean
Right. Their. Their option. Their. Their product was priced high enough that when they discount it by 20%, they’re still making an 80% margin.

Ian Miclean
Right?

Ian Miclean
So if your product is high quality, people will pay more for it. So make sure you’re doing a great job. Price it higher.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
And then when you bring in that discount, make sure that your margin is safe. It’s not like you have to be giving away money to do this. All you need to do is give someone that psychological motivation to perform an action now rather than later.

Logan Shinholser
So how do you then do this in, let’s say, h vac or plumbing, where we’re not just inundating people with photos of air conditioning units and go, hey, check out how hot this would look outside your house. So what do you do in that same. The top, the middle and the bottom of the funnel piece.

Ian Miclean
Yeah. There’s a variety of things you can do. I think there are more, because an air conditioner is something that people don’t understand how it works. There’s more problems with it that you can expose people to.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
Maybe there’s a filter in there that needs to be cleaned once in a while. Maybe like, there’s benefit to a routine maintenance package. Maybe there is this thing that needs to get checked or you need new coolant. I don’t really know. I’m not an air conditioning person. But if you can expose people to the fact that, yeah, there are things that you need to have done on a routine basis, that can be a great way to expose people to the potential that they have a problem. But I will say the biggest thing that you can do with that kind of thing is be the name that is available when they are ready with that sort of urgent action. So if we go back to that issue of water coming through my roof, at that point, I’m calling somebody.

Ian Miclean
But what you want to do is make sure that you’re the name that I recognize. I think that testimonials, again, are a really good way to do that because no video footage of the interior of an air conditioner is going to be like, wow, I really would like that thing. But somebody saying, hey, you know what? They came out to my house the same day. They fixed the issue really quick. They were an affordable price, they were respectful, they dressed nice and they spoke nice. And seeing that over and over again, if I know your name, I’ll just call you. I think it’s called Morris Jenkins. I’m not going to hire them right now, but I’m saying their name right now. I did not go out of my way in any way to figure out who they were. I just know their name.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
And if I ever have an issue, there’s a good chance that they’re going to be on the list.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
So a big piece of what you need to do is just follow that same procedure. It’s not going to be the same as a design build space, because you don’t have that really visual product, but you do still have access to client testimonials, and you do still have access to exposing people to potential problems that they might have with their unit.

Logan Shinholser
So, I mean, I see a ton of Morris Jenkins commercials, billboards, their trucks are everywhere when they show up, this is not like your typical plumber. That’s like, you know, their butt cracks hanging out. This is like they were like a white button down, like, it looks nice. And so I remember, like, it was like, I don’t know, six months ago. I just, like, googled them just to, like, learn more about them. And then I popped on Facebook, and lo and behold, there’s an ad with a dollar 79 drain cleaning. And it was the time that we actually had. Our drains were clogged. So my wife, like, Audrey and I, my wife, were talking about, like, oh, we gotta get somebody in here to do it.

Logan Shinholser
And I see this ad that specifically talks to that exact and more straight, because, I mean, they’re not making money on the $79. They’re making money on what happens afterwards.

Ian Miclean
Correct. And they’re building that relationship with you. Like, getting yourself in the door is oftentimes the hardest thing to do. Once, like, we go back to the doctor Sasquatch thing, I keep buying the soap, right? Like, the effort it took to get me into that place where I’m an active consumer was a lot. But once they’re in your space, once you’re like, hey, you know what? I had this positive. They came out, they cleaned my drains. It was great. It was cheap, right? Like, or maybe it wasn’t cheap. Maybe it was just like, a good price for the service that was offered. Probably it’s a good chance you’ll call them back, right? And I think you mentioned that thing about the, like, button up, right? I think that is really good awareness on the behalf of Morris Jenkins, on who their consumer is, right.

Ian Miclean
A lot of contractors don’t proactively think about whose house they’re going to be in, right. Oftentimes. Just the truth of this, these kind of products are bought by women predominantly. They do a lot of the buying for households. Not exclusively, but they do a lot of it, right? And so if you show up sort of long, scraggly beard, dirty t shirt, butt crack hanging out, you’re swearing, right? You’re not doing a good job of representing yourself just from that social interaction. You are damaging yourself in the eyes of your consumer. And so being proactive about like, hey, what is the best way we could show up for this person, right? If I think about, like, my mom, right? What would she like for me to show up looking like, at, like, Sunday brunch, right?

Ian Miclean
It’s not, it’s not slobby, it’s not, right with my gut hanging out. It’s not any of those things, right? I’m not in any way indicating that’s what most people do. But, like, you have to think about how would I like somebody else to show up in my home?

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
And it’s clean, it’s professional, it’s friendly.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
And Morris Jenkins does a really good job of highlighting themselves as that kind of service provider.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
They’re offering a kind of dirty service. It’s plumbing. But they do it in a way that is clean and professional and makes people feel at ease when people are coming into their home.

Logan Shinholser
I think one thing to highlight on this is it’s one thing to, like, look clean and professional. But, like, if, especially in the design build space, like, when we did our bathroom, the designer, my wife even commented on this when she showed up. She, like, was very fashion forward. And, like, she fit the role. She fit the role of, like, you know? Cause, like, my wife doesn’t want, like, she doesn’t want a bathroom that is designed for ten years ago. She wants one that’s designed for in the very least this year.

Ian Miclean
Correct.

Logan Shinholser
And beyond that is still timeless. And we wanted, or I didn’t even think about it this way, but, like, she wanted a designer that, like, had all of that. It’s like, imagine if you hired us for your marketing and I still had a flip phone. Cause I was like, nah, I just don’t really do the whole smartphone thing. You’re like, well, okay. Like, that’s odd. So dressing the part isn’t always just.

Ian Miclean
Like, no, it’s not just being clean. Yeah, but it can be, depending on the context.

Logan Shinholser
Yes.

Ian Miclean
And that’s, at the end of the day is like, know what your consumer wants.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah.

Ian Miclean
Right. And make sure that’s you.

Logan Shinholser
Because I don’t need the most fashion forward plumbing setup, but I do need, like, for anything, design, build, stuff like that. Like, show up looking like, okay, this person cares about their parents. They care about, like, yeah, it’s the.

Ian Miclean
Same reason a lawyer wears a suit. That’s what people expect. And a certain part of marketing yourself is playing that game of what is the social expectation for my role? And am I doing a good job of representing myself as that kind of person?

Logan Shinholser
So to kind of summarize all of this, when it comes to the buyer’s journey, it’s recognizing that there are different stages that people are in. Not everybody’s ready to buy right now. And I guess, like, in your mind, Ian, what if you only focus on the 3% or the people that need your product right now and you don’t put any sort of dollars, resources, energy into the.

Ian Miclean
You’re going to have a really hard time scaling.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
Because the reality is once people are at that 3%, if you are not already in the running, you’re probably out of it.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
So if your competitors are reaching them when they are early on in that buyer’s journey, exposing them to their brand, really getting engaged with them, by the time you get to the 3%, it’s too late. You’ve lost.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
So the simple reality is, because of the competitive landscape, because there’s more people doing savvy advertising, you do not have the luxury of just being available when people need the product. It’s just not the reality anymore. There are too many companies, too many people with advertising teams, too many people with money, too many messages out there. Right. You know it. I’m sure you see them all the time. We all see ads constantly when we’re watching tv, when we’re streaming, when we’re on our phones, when we’re in the car. Advertising is so prevalent, and if you are not participating in that game, by the time people get to that place where they’re making that decision, it doesn’t matter. You are so far behind your competitors that even if your product is way, way better, you’re not going to.

Logan Shinholser
Get picked just for clarification purposes. When you’re saying advertising and things like that, do you mean just like paid ads or is this.

Ian Miclean
Yeah, so when I say advertising, I mean everything. It’s what you hear on the radio, it’s the emails that you get. It’s the billboard outside of your house. It is the ads.

Ian Miclean
Right?

Logan Shinholser
It’s social media.

Ian Miclean
Yeah. Any marketing message you receive, it falls under that umbrella of advertising, which would.

Logan Shinholser
Also include, like, if you go and sponsor, like, a local five k, people now at least know, oh, I never heard of Logan’s remodeling company, but they must be sponsoring this five k. It’s like the stuff that, like, you know, there’s baseball fields right behind my house. And, like, you have all, like, the local brands, including Morris Jenkins, that has their logo on.

Ian Miclean
Why do you think at and t pays for NFL stadiums?

Logan Shinholser
Yeah. Just for that reason.

Ian Miclean
It’s so that they can put their giant ass at and t up on that stadium towering over the city. Right. Pr, right. Like, anything that you can do to get your name out is going to have a positive impact. Even just doing that, like sponsoring that five k, it’s like, all of a sudden you’re like, oh, like, they must be decent people, right? They’re supposed to sponsor this local community event, right. They must have some money, which means they must be fairly successful if they’re giving it away to charities. Right. You’re creating buzz for yourself in your local market that you would not have otherwise. But sometimes people don’t even think about that as a marketing activity.

Ian Miclean
They might do something charitable, which is a great thing to do for its own reasons, but there’s no reason not to get a side benefit out of that. Let people know that you do it right. It’s going to benefit the charity, and it’s going to benefit you.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah. Now I think about it with Gray. My son’s four months old. Like when he’s five, he’ll be part of the contractor growth network Cougars baseball team. So I’m pumped to have my own team.

Ian Miclean
Cool.

Logan Shinholser
So last thing. What is one thing that somebody should do right now if they are in this space and they’re now like, damn, I got it. Like now. I was putting all my energy into just the 3% rated people, like, buy right now. What is one thing that they should now take away from this and actually implement in their business to try to figure out either what the marketing journey looks like or what they should be doing?

Ian Miclean
Yeah, I think you need to. One thing is hard. Pinning me down to one thing is hard. So I’m going to go with two. One. Try to get inside of the mind of your consumer. Think about who buys your product. And it should be pretty easy to do this. If you’ve been in business for a while, look back at who’s bought from you.

Ian Miclean
Right.

Ian Miclean
Generalize about them. Remember what those conversations that you had with them. Think about who they are, what they want, what they valued, what they cared about with your service. And then beyond that is start thinking of ways to get in front of people earlier. Those may not be things where there’s a clear ROI. Sometimes it’s going to be sponsoring a five k. Sometimes it may just be some ads that you’re putting out to your local market that just show the thing that you do. Or it can be sending out emails or handing out brochures or something like that, thinking about how do I proactively get my name out there into my market earlier and more often.

Logan Shinholser
Cool. All right, well, I think that’ll do it. On fire’s journey. Ian, thanks for joining, man.

Ian Miclean
Cool, thanks. Thank you.

Logan Shinholser
That was an awesome episode. I loved having this conversation with Ian about it. Cause it’s really marketing 101, but it’s all the things that need to happen from a blocking and tackling perspective. And these are the things that, when I first started doing all the marketing for my dad’s company ten years ago. I had no idea that I was actually doing these things without me even realizing the whole idea of the 90, the seven, and the three. And that is why he was able to sell the company six years later and they’re still just continuing to crush it.

Logan Shinholser
So if you like this episode, my suggestion on this one specifically is to send this to somebody on your team that is more client focused, have them listen to it, and then talk about what are the things that we can be doing together as a team to get in front of our ideal prospects at the right stages in their customer journey. This stuff is. It’s simple, but it’s not always the easiest thing to do, especially on your own. So send it to somebody on your team, have them listen to it and chat about this stuff together. It will be a fantastic conversation.

Aly Romano
Thank you so much for joining us on this episode of the Contractor Growth Network. This episode of the Contractor Growth network podcast is hosted by Logan Shinholser and was produced by Ian Miclean, Logan Shinholser and Dane Appleyard. Today’s guest was the marketing director of CGN, Ian Miclean. If you have any questions from today’s episode, please reach out to the podcast@infocontractorgrowthnetwork.com. Dot we look forward to seeing you next time when we talk about customer lifetime value with Steve Shinholser.