The Anatomy of a Great Remodeling Testimonial

Aaron Horner
One of the most effective ways of building trust with potential clients is by sharing stories of your past work, being able to tell in an emotional way how you’ve solved problems for other clients. How is your company doing at this? Are you consistently sharing these stories in an emotional and memorable way? So that way, when prospects are looking at multiple companies, your stories are the ones they remember. On today’s episode, we’re diving into all of what we’ve learned over the years creating video testimonials. What’s the difference between a good videographer and a bad videographer? Questions do you ask in these testimonials? Questions like these, so that when you have the big job that you need to capture the testimonial for, you know, you can make the most of that opportunity.

Logan Shinholser
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Contractor Growth Network podcast. I’m Logan Shinholser, and today we’re back in the studio with Aaron Horner.

Aaron Horner
Hello. Glad to be back.

Logan Shinholser
We’re going to be going all through. We get a lot of questions from clients, from prospects about video testimonials. And I typically have to be the bearer of bad news when it comes to how to do video testimonials because they are very hard. So doing them. And when I say video testimonial, this is, you just finished a project for a client, they’re super happy. They’re over the moon about what it looked like to work with you. And you’re thinking, I should probably get them on video and have them talk through the experience of what it looked like to work with us so I can then somehow use that video in our marketing to get more people to buy from us as well.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
And when I typically go to them and tell them, hey, I got some bad news, Aaron, what do you think?

Aaron Horner
I tell them, it’s not as easy as you think it would be. My first thing from talking to people.

Logan Shinholser
And what are some of the things that make it not as easy?

Aaron Horner
I think a lot of people, generally, if you haven’t given it much thought before, you’ll put the camera in front of them, you’ll ask a few questions. You’re not giving too much thought to how professional the video and audio setup is and also the content of the interview. Yeah. I think, like, those are the two main sections, people. Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
So we have a list of, like, some of the questions that people ask about it. And it really comes in with, like, everybody first asks, what questions do I ask them? Do I have to send them in advance? Should I hire a photographer or a videographer or should I use my iPhone? Or could I just go out and buy a camera for this? Who then edits this stuff? Am I having to edit this? Should I prioritize this stuff now or do I come back to this stuff later? What if I have a great project but my clients are uncomfortable with being on camera? How do I convince them with how to do it? It’s all those things that basically what we’re going to talk about today is breaking down the steps of, like, to do this thing the correct way.

Logan Shinholser
How do we approach it? What are some of the specific tactical things that you want to be thinking about? Because candidly, and this is going to kind of suck to say, even if we tell you all these things from a tactical perspective and say do this in this exact way, it’s still probably going to come out differently than how you’re going in thinking it’s going to come out, or it’s going to have a different end result as far as, like, you put it out on the Internet and you think all these people are now going to reach out to you because of it. But that may not happen. Yeah. So just keep that in mind of, like, Aaron, how many. I mean, how long have you been doing video testimonial stuff for.

Aaron Horner
Specifically for remodelers? Like, four years or three years, something like that. But specifically for this industry, for remodelers.

Logan Shinholser
And if you were to look back at, let’s say, the first set of videos that you did and you had to give yourself a grade of an A through an F, what would you give yourself on those first ones?

Aaron Horner
Knowing what you know now, a solid C. I can think back to the one we. Yeah. For Farrell’s Lawn and Garden that we made, that were very proud of.

Logan Shinholser
We loved it.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah, he loved it. And then when you look back on.

Aaron Horner
It now, you’re like, oh, this is so boring.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah. So you learn along the way. But basically, let’s. Let’s go through, I guess, some of the biggest mistakes that you see people make, and then we’ll go through the actual process.

Aaron Horner
Okay, so I think the. Now who specifically what people do you want me to address? People who are hiring a videographer?

Logan Shinholser
No, let’s go with, like, the remodeler. Because, like, I would say, okay, well, that’s a good delineation. So let’s just go with, you’re a remodeling company. You just did a killer project that you would love to get the client on video for.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
What are some of your options? As far as how do you do it?

Aaron Horner
So, yeah, I mean, I guess you have three options, unless I think of more as I’m speaking. The first is you document it yourself, which is, you know, I’ll watch some videos, I’ll do something. I can do this myself. Shoot it yourself. The other is you have somebody on your team. Maybe it’s a social media person, somebody that is somewhat apt to do this that you bring in, or you hire somebody outside, like an agency or a local videographer, which even those might be two different things.

Logan Shinholser
And there’s also people that are like, oh, I’ll have my photographer. My photographer said, yeah, I’m going to come out and shoot or capture a bunch of photos.

Aaron Horner
I’ll be there anyways.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah, I’ll be there anyways for an extra 200 bucks, 500 bucks, whatever it is. Do you want me to have the person on camera?

Aaron Horner
That’s a good point, because that would sound very appealing because then you’re thinking, this person is a professional. It does make sense. They’re already going to be there. They know how to make things look good. I don’t see why they couldn’t.

Logan Shinholser
So let’s talk about pros and cons of each. Let’s go first with the first one of, like, you’re the owner. You know what you want the person to talk about. You’re like, I’m gonna do this. Yeah, pros and cons of that.

Aaron Horner
There’s a wide range I’ve seen of people interviewing their clients of understanding of what the story of the project is. Sometimes as the owner, I think they do have a good understanding of. They’re thinking about it in a sales sense. What do I need to get across to somebody? And they can kind of direct clients in that way. But more often than not, they will get distracted on certain things. Like, I think the business owner. One times that I’m speaking about this a lot, I talk about the curse of knowledge. Like you. You know too many details that it’s hard for you to back out and look at the whole picture again and ask questions that will give that. So they’ll miss big things. Like, I’ll see people that will have a testimonial.

Aaron Horner
At no point in the testimonial will they say what work was done. Because to everybody there, it’s obvious. The homeowners know exactly what was done. The contractor knows exactly what was done. But for the people watching, you don’t know the full scope of work. So was it just the kitchen or did we do These built ins over here, or was it kitchen plus some bathrooms, that kind of stuff. So that’s, I think one of the biggest things people miss right away is they can’t zoom out and get rid of that curse of knowledge.

Logan Shinholser
Okay, so that would be. And I guess the pro would then be, you don’t have to pay any money for this because you’re the one that has to. You’re the one doing it.

Aaron Horner
Yeah. And to be fair, if you go and you hire somebody that knows how to operate a camera, they don’t know about sales. And so if you are the business owner, at one point, at the very least you were in a sales seat. And if not now, you’re still in a sales seat. So you, if you’re thinking about from that mindset, that gives you some perspective of what to ask and what’s important. But if, like the photographer, for example, probably not as skilled in sales as you are, so their questions might not be as helpful. So I think you might have a little bit of a leg up versus somebody that has absolutely no clue what they’re doing.

Logan Shinholser
So you’re saying it’s almost better to have the business owner not knowing how to really work a camera do this, rather than a photographer who says, I could maybe tack this thing on. Or is it kind of like, it’s.

Aaron Horner
Really tough because to say one of the two, like, well, wouldn’t you.

Logan Shinholser
Couldn’t you then make the argument of best case scenario is like, okay, well, you have a photographer who’s out there.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
And then you have the homeowner or the business owner that’s asking the questions.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Where does that then I guess that kind of goes back to the first point, which was the business owner is going to ask very like, what was like working with like, basically questions that don’t even say what you did.

Aaron Horner
I guess the thing is, like, with practice, that’s not a skill that you can’t overcome. That’s not a thing you can’t learn. So if you’re willing to put in that time and like, here’s the questions I should ask and make sure you’re covering all the bases. Like, that’s an attainable route. Like Joe Fry, one of our clients, like, that is exactly the relationship we have set up with him where he has a photographer who’s very good at doing photos. He tried to do some video testimonials for him. Joe ended up not liking them. So the way it works now is the photographer shoots the video, Joe runs the interview, and he sends him over to us for editing. Okay. So that’s an attainable situation.

Aaron Horner
But Joe’s been doing it for a long time and he was also willing to eat a lot of testimonials that frankly like he threw out because it just didn’t go well the first few times.

Logan Shinholser
And we had also at that point we’d flown out and done all their videos as well.

Aaron Horner
So he’d seen it in person.

Logan Shinholser
He was like immersed in what it looks like. Okay. So that’s basically like, you know, you have the owner do it themselves. Somebody who is, let’s say you have an in house social media person. Yeah, talk to me about that because you could maybe make the argument that’s best of both worlds where like they know a little bit more about the business, they know more about maybe how to operate a camera. What does that look like?

Aaron Horner
Yeah, I mean there’s pros and cons for that. So if you’re looking at somebody to make something just for social media and it’s more relatable, more grounded, I guess that’s fine if that’s your goal. Like if you’re, if the goal of the video is to come off as relatable and usually this person, like what they’ll enjoy about it is like the fun side of social media. Like it will come off as more friendly. But if you want to show off the quality of your work and make it look prestigious, that’s when would behoove you to get somebody who would. Who knows how to use a camera better and can actually capture it in an artistic way.

Logan Shinholser
So it’s almost like, you know, if you want somebody to come in and capture it, like an architectural digest, that’s a very different skill set than somebody who’s going to capture it. Like how it’s going to go on TikTok.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
And you may be thinking like, well, our style isn’t really like quote unquote, TikTok because it has like maybe like a negative connotation as you’re listening to it. But when you have a social media person who’s good at social media do it.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
It’s inevitable, inevitably going to be feel a lot closer to a TikTok style video rather than an architectural digest video. And those can both work, but they serve two very different purposes with two very different outcomes.

Aaron Horner
Yeah, it’s different. Think about the different people you’re targeting. Like I think everybody at this point would be familiar with those like story centric social media videos of like home transformations where it’s basically a voiceover. The whole time somebody’s delivering, like, here’s what we did. And the footage is very satisfying. It shows you all the changes they made. That’s a very different value that you’re selling there versus an architectural digest. We’ve already built the space now. Look how beautiful it is. Recap. Video, Something like that.

Logan Shinholser
And then moving over to the actual photographer doing this, we talked a little bit about pros and cons. What does that look like?

Aaron Horner
Yeah, I think really the main con is just going to be that interview. It is very possible they will be apt with videography as well. It’s something I would like to vet beforehand. Unless you’re willing to burn one to try it out. But I would like to see their work before I went through and committed to that with a photographer because it doesn’t always translate one to one.

Logan Shinholser
And I feel like. I mean, I don’t know if photography as well as you do actually, I barely know it. But like, when it comes to this stuff, like, typically who you’re going to hire to come in and shoot your photos is going to be a real estate photographer that is not used to actually having a subject.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
So somebody who would do like a family portrait would almost be like, more aligned with like an interview. But typically you don’t want somebody who does family portraits to come out and shoot for a new kitchen.

Aaron Horner
No, that’s a good point. Like, their focus might be entirely different. Like, unless you have somebody very specialized that you’re thinking of, that you have the utmost confidence in their quality of work. Real estate photographers or real estate videographers, I would almost entirely stray away from at this point because like you’re saying, like, their. Their emphasis is just in a different way. Like the. The business model for those career paths are all about speed. Like, that’s all they’re trying to do is get it done quickly. And they just want to be in and out, which isn’t what you really want when you’re trying to showcase the beauty of the project.

Logan Shinholser
So we basically. I know we said pros and cons, but we basically just listed cons for everything. So, like, at this point, are you. I mean, basically the way that we’re coming off is like, it’s not worth it. So how can it work? Well, like, what is a scenario where you can actually do this thing right to that? Like, I guess, what does that process look like?

Aaron Horner
Okay, okay, so that’s a good point. I mean, that is how my brain works, is I naturally just take things away I think about all the negatives to start, and then I see what’s left. So, I mean, like, there is a realistic situation where you can have a videographer who you trust to make things look beautiful, and you’re willing to put in the effort to learn how to run a testimonial and an interview, which is different from a sales call. I would think you know more about sales than I do, but there’s a difference between it and we can get more into that if you want. And then sending it to somebody, whether that’s, you know, your videographer can do the editing or something like that, but somebody specialized needs to handle the editing as well. Yeah. Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Because there’s really, like, several components to this, and the first one is like, the actual, like, capturing of the interview itself.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Which a lot of people that are more quote, unquote, social media people don’t do a great job of because there’s a whole level which we’ll go through is, like, framing it and making sure you have the right equipment and the right. I don’t realize how impactful lighting was until, like, we started doing this, but I realized very quickly, like, the lighting is, like, a huge component of this stuff.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
So there’s, like, that level of, like, the actual, like, technical component of the thing.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Then the next part is going to be the actual, like, story in the interview. So knowing what to ask, what is good enough? I mean, when you first started it, you would go out and you would ask the homeowner, like, you know, why’d you get this kitchen done? And they’re like, I just. I didn’t like my old kitchen. You’re like, perfect answer. Of course, then, you know, as you’ve gotten more and more into it, you know, and this is what went to.

Aaron Horner
We went too far the other way for a bit.

Logan Shinholser
We did do that where it was just like, tell me about your childhood of, like, what traumatic events happened in your family kitchen that you wanted to renovate this, you know, so were.

Aaron Horner
Getting into it, and it was like, we had a couple where people cried, and then were like, if they don’t cry, it’s not a good thing.

Logan Shinholser
Did you ever have a dog die in this kitchen? Just. Let’s talk about that.

Aaron Horner
Yeah. So went too far that way. Yeah. I could go off on a tangent.

Logan Shinholser
On that, but it was good because it was good practice. I mean, that was like, a whole thing that, like, you and I and then Chris and you practiced where it was a lot of, like, mean Just like, with sales, like, the first time that you’re like, hey, why do you want to renovate your home? And they’re like, I just don’t like it. And you’re like, oh, perfect answer. Like, versus, like, okay, you’re about to spend a lot of money and you’re about to do all these other things. Like, there’s got to be more than. Just, like, you don’t like it. Like, did you just happen to stumble upon 300 grand and you don’t like it? That’s different than, like, your hard earned, you know? So it’s the ability to almost, like, understand what, like, the end goal or the end line is.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
And then how can you strategically get people to that place, but also keeping them comfortable while you’re doing it? Because that’s a huge part of it of, you know, people hopping on camera and during the interview. And I’m like, is this person gonna throw up? Like, are they gonna be okay? So to me, you have the interview style. Then the last part is the actual editing. Like, how do you actually put all this stuff together where. And that’s a huge thing that, like, I very. I felt like I was really good at the interview stuff. Me personally, Logan, I didn’t really know about any of the technical stuff, so I can’t really speak to that. Then the editing, I was like, oh, this is just like, basically, just tell the story, but clip it down and put some B. Roll over it.

Logan Shinholser
But, like, as you’ve gone through it, you’ve learned a hell of a lot more than, like, yeah, all right, let’s actually look at when the view rates are dropping off. And let’s see. Like, we used to go for a very heavy HGTV style of things we learned very quickly, like the client or the. The homeowner that. Or the person that’s watching the hgtv, they like the actual, like, the host. The host.

Aaron Horner
They’re watching it for the host, so.

Logan Shinholser
They like the host a lot. So you’re not watching it for the end result. But in this case, like, the host would be, like, the homeowner. You don’t know the homeowner.

Aaron Horner
You don’t know that. Yeah. I thought for a bit you need to get them emotionally invested in the homeowner story, and you need them to start rooting for them and like them to do that and tell the story of a remodel and have it be, like, satisfying and this without it being overly long. Like, that’s incredibly hard to do. What you really have to do is just get them bought into, like, do I like this project? Which is much easier because that’s why they’re coming to the video.

Logan Shinholser
So let’s talk now. Let’s pivot over to with this and put a bow on it to kind of summarize it. It can be done. You can have a local videographer, we have documentation that we like show to clients that ask. We’re like, hey, this is how an interview is done. Here’s a 27 minute version of the video. Now here’s a 13 minute version of the exact same interview. And then now here’s the final two and a half, three minute video that basically whittles it all down. That’s the final edit. But you’re able to actually see how do we go from this long thing to this medium thing to this very tight thing and what’s all the shots with it? So it can be done. It’s just training and practice and understanding what that needs to look like. So we’ll go through that.

Logan Shinholser
But first, what is the whole point of the video? Cause we used to do videos and then clients are like, I love this video, what do I do with it? And we’re like, yeah, good point. You put it on your website. Yeah.

Aaron Horner
Show it to people.

Logan Shinholser
I don’t know, like if MySpace came back, like you set that as your profile. So what is the point of the video in your mind?

Aaron Horner
I think to me it is the thinking about the benefit of the medium of video is the best way to get the story across to a prospect. I think the best home for it is like it needs to be featured on a page on your website that also has the photography and some additional details of the project. To me, I think that’s the best use case is either you’re talking to a prospect and they have an idea for a project that sounds very similar to one you did before. The nice thing about having video and feature project page on it is you can now get credit for all of those past works you did you’ve done. The idea is that you can then share that story with them and now prove to them, yes, I know exactly what you’re saying.

Aaron Horner
This is exactly the problem this person was having. And here’s what we did to help them. So now they have much more confidence in your ability to solve their problem because they’ve seen you do it before.

Logan Shinholser
What’s the benefit then of doing? I mean, if the whole point is like to build that confidence, what’s the benefit of having a video at the Top of the page versus just having the photos and like a written out story below it, because I know we stack them both. But in your mind you can, you.

Aaron Horner
Can convey more emotion through the video. The video, like there’s music that goes along with the video, there’s editing. The way the project is showed off, like there, it’s a lot less sterile. Somebody’s just trying to get a quick overview of what it is. They can read the text and get that. But somebody that’s actually interested, if it’s actually somebody that wants this kind of project in their home, they want to get a better feel for the space. The video allows you to move through the space. You can actually, it’s closer to having a home walkthrough. Like if you were able to invite that person into the project, over to the house to physically be in the space, the video gets you much closer to that as well as expressed expressing the emotion of the homeowner that you did the work for.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah, let’s talk about the actual, like, how do you actually shoot a good video? So like, what is the setup? What is the prep? Let’s just go through kind of like the different stages, if you will, of like before you go out to the house, like, you’ve identified a client that has said, if you ever want me to like do anything to help your business, you let me know. You love the project. It looks good. This would be a prime candidate for it. Talk to me about, like, what do you, how do you, how are you prepping this? Or how are you, like, are you just showing up on that day and going, great, I got my iPhone, let’s go. Or like, what does the prep work look like? That’s a big part.

Aaron Horner
Yeah, we’ve done a, I think like, we basically tried every approach over the years of what should you do? And we’ve tried like almost everyone you can think of. What I’ve ultimately found is like, it’s best to have a good understanding of what the story is going into it. And a lot of people hear the word story, but they don’t know what it means. Essentially it’s what’s the single sentence that sums up what they had done and why? Like my go to example I always use is my favorite testimonial still. I think to this day probably the Integrity Home Pro Kitchen that we did where they were deciding between our kids have moved out, do we now move or do we renovate this house?

Aaron Horner
So now that we can have the big family gatherings here, and that was their Whole motivation, like, you don’t have to, you know, make them cry and that kind of stuff. But having a good understanding of, like, that’s essentially why they got it done. It’s not because they weren’t happy about the kitchen, that kind of thing. They wanted to have their children come back home. So in.

Logan Shinholser
In that case, did you know that, like, how did you personally figure that. That storyline out? Did you interview the client? Because.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Okay.

Aaron Horner
Yeah. So for that one specifically, what we did was we interviewed the clients before went out. I think that if you’re having your videographer run the interview, either you need to provide them with that story. And if you don’t have confidence, then having like a. It doesn’t need to be anything super formal, but some sort of conversation between the videographer and the homeowner before will be helpful.

Logan Shinholser
And if we’re trying to sell in this example. So basically, they said, we’re either moving or we’re gonna renovate our kitchen. They ended up renovating the kitchen. Is it like, everybody has to have, like. For it to be a good video testimonial, you have to have some, like, bigger problem or bigger thing at play other than just like, in this case, what if they just said, we just didn’t like the old kitchen?

Aaron Horner
Everybody has one. Okay. There’s not a person who doesn’t like.

Logan Shinholser
So there’s like, some, like, some sentimental. So like, in my house, for example, right now, like, we just finished at a home addition. We wanted more space. If is it then, like, great, your job as the business owner is. Or that you either go to the salesperson or you, the business owner, have to say there’s got to be a. What’s the whole south park thing? It’s like.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Because.

Aaron Horner
To make a story interesting, you can never just keep saying. And it either needs to be this happened, but this or this happened, therefore this. Okay.

Logan Shinholser
So it all has to be connected. So in my house, it’s like, we just finished a home edition because we wanted more space. It wouldn’t end there, but it’s because we just had a second baby and we lost our. The office that my wife had the desk in.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
And it’s in the bedroom now. And we needed a place to put that.

Aaron Horner
Well, in yours, I would tell, like, yours is a good example because it’s a story we haven’t told. So I can think it through in real time.

Logan Shinholser
Let’s just go there. So let’s just practice it live. So I know why we did it. But how would you approach this well, given.

Aaron Horner
I haven’t immediately. I know a little bit about the context of the area. Like, you guys like the neighborhood that you’re in. It’s an older home, so there’s smaller floor plans and things like that. Like, it’s. You’re going to run into issues of having little space, and that’s going to be something that’s relatable to somebody else in your neighborhood because they will have the same problem there. You know, new young family moves into the neighborhood, gets an older historic home. That’s beautiful. They absolutely love it, but it’s not functional for their needs. That. That in itself is a relatable story.

Logan Shinholser
Okay, so then in my. So that’s exactly what our. Our house is. We love the area. We looked at, like, do we move houses? Like, when. When coal came along? But the big thing for us was, like, honestly, like, we have a really good mortgage rate because of what, you know, we bought it in 2022.

Aaron Horner
Yep.

Logan Shinholser
So we don’t want to. You know, then we looked at, like, okay, if we want the space that we want, we’re basically gonna have to double or triple our mortgage. That doesn’t feel worth it. On top of them moving with a kid. So then what, you know, if that becomes like, a line that I say to the builder is that then what? Like, a builder may go, well, logically, if we could tell the story of, like, you got a great mortgage rate and you don’t want to move, like, is that part of the story as well? Or is that, like, I guess, like, how do you then piece in? Or is it just basically, like, this is our main storyline, Logan. Like, we need to dive deep into, like. Like, in that case, okay, we don’t want to move.

Logan Shinholser
We had a second kid on the way. We have an office that now is basically our bedroom. We have a good mortgage rate. Like, do you just pick one of those elements and dive into it? Or are you trying to weave all three of those things of, like, into one now?

Aaron Horner
Simpler is better. One of the things I found, especially in the editing process, is sometimes I’ll go into an interview and I’ll still be thinking of, like, maybe there are all three of those. And what I’ll do is based on the resolution we get in the interview, that’s a lot of times how I pick which one I go with. Like, well, one of the things, I mean, you talked about, and this can seem like a dumb, small thing, but if the resolution was there, then it’s great having Audrey’s desk in your office or in your bedroom was like keeping you up at night. If she was up late working on.

Logan Shinholser
Something, I still have it because we haven’t moved it out yet. But I wear headphones because, like, and I bought her a new keyboard because hers was so loud. And she takes client calls in there.

Aaron Horner
Right? So like, that can even seem like a silly one. You’re like, well, that’s not emotional, but it’s like it’s affecting your sleep. That becomes a problem if you then at the end say, like, I’m sleeping so much better. Like, I’m grateful for this every single night. That very might well be like, okay, well, there’s a really good resolution. Then I think back to the beginning. Let’s set that up as the main problem.

Logan Shinholser
Oh, sorry. Are you like. So let’s say in this pre interview process and when I say pre interview, that’s like, before you actually go out there, are you asking them and basically trying to figure out all the different storylines of like, was this kid related, Was this sleep related, Was this mortgage rate related? And then you’re kind of hearing out like, which of those is like the more emotional piece for the client. And then at the end, do you have some sort of resolution where, like, maybe I talk a lot about the keyboard and stuff in the bedroom, but at the end there is no, like, well, you sleeping better now? And I’m like, not really.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Then you’re like, I got to cut that one.

Aaron Horner
Yeah, yeah. It has to have a good resolution at the end. Like the integrity Home Pro 1. Where are they going to move? Where are they gonna. Like, they had a beautiful line at the end where they’re like, now we’re just glad we didn’t move. Cause now we have all this. We have this and we’re so glad we didn’t move. It’s almost like we got a new house, but we didn’t have to. And now our kids can come back here. The same house. They made memories in that kind of stuff.

Logan Shinholser
So it’s basically the whole. I mean, this is like Steve Jobs big thing was just like all of his slides, like when he creates a slide has one focal point and that’s it. He doesn’t have like, I’m trying to get these three different points across. It’s like every slide in this PowerPoint or this presentation has one single thought. That’s it. It sounds like that’s like how these stories are. It’s like you may have four different storylines, but four is Ends up becoming like they are competing and you don’t really are. You’re not drawn in because you’re basically halfway doing each of them. You got to pick one thing and go with it.

Aaron Horner
Yeah, exactly. I mean like, I mean if you think about it like this, like episodes of television, like at least before things became like an hour long, that 40 minute timeline, they were 20 minutes but they were still divided up into usually two or three storylines. So then those storylines themselves are taking up, you know, 10 minutes, six minutes. And those are like. We orchestrated it to all happen. Very like we crafted everything to be as entertaining as possible. But even in that scenario, they are taking these multiple and putting them together for 20 minutes. So it’s like what I would say is three minutes is not that much time to be doing all that different stuff, like all those different storylines.

Aaron Horner
Like you really just need to pick one and go through it because essentially what’s gonna happen is that’s what people are gonna take away from anyways if you try and give them too many ideas. I think that’s a Steve Jobs thing as well. When he was talking about the marketing for the company. If you try and throw too many things at people, they won’t catch any of them. Yeah, yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Alright, so in the pre interview you’re figuring out basically what is like the storyline. So at the end of it and when you go in and actually do the interview with the client, you’re going in already with like a bit of a mindset around. Okay, we’re going to focus on are you going to move, are you not going to move? And then I got to make sure I ask the right questions to really pull this thing apart even more. But everything’s going to be geared around moving versus not moving.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Okay, so all right, so we had that set up ahead of time with the client and now let’s talk about next steps, which is like how do you actually set up? So you go to the home and where are you setting up? Does it have to be in the room that you did? What if the room was a bathroom? Like just a, you know, for. If you want to do a powder room, Are you having them like sit there outside the powder room or like how are you then approaching the interview? Like what should they be doing to set up? What kind of like camera work do you need? Like that kind of stuff?

Aaron Horner
Yeah, so I mean ideally you’re setting up in a natural looking space. So if you did the kitchen, I like to usually frame them just in front of the Kitchen or something like that. Like, usually it’ll be a kitchen, and then you can put them in the living room with the kitchen in the background. I like.

Logan Shinholser
Like, why not just put them like, hey, we did a kitchen. Sit right here at the island.

Aaron Horner
You can. I just. The way it functionally breaks down is you don’t typically have that good of a view from the island, like, zoomed in like that. Then you’re just looking at, like, part of a stove or something like that in the background.

Logan Shinholser
I guess it’s like, with, like, morning news, where it’s like they have this skyline in the background.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
But it’s not like, hey, we’re in the heart of the city. Here’s a skyscraper behind us. It’s like, okay, all right, I gotcha.

Aaron Horner
Yeah. So just functionally, the way the space works and you set up the camera, like, that’s gonna be a videographer who doesn’t know what they’re gonna. They’re doing. They’re gonna set up the camera there. Cause that’s where you sit in this space. But what’s gonna look better on camera is actually take those bar stools, move them into the living room, and then I always. I always back up, like, Tom almost hitting the far wall, so I can get as much of the space in the shot as possible.

Logan Shinholser
Okay. All right. So you have it set up where you’re just outside of it, but maybe you hopefully have the space in the background. Let’s talk about, like, camera work. Is it. I mean, we used to use an iPhone at first, and then went out and bought expensive stuff. But, like, you know, I was using the example on a call yesterday where I was like, yeah, like, it’s less about the equipment, where people go out and they buy the nicest drones, and they’re like, I can’t do these video interviews because I want to do it myself until I get, like, a $2,000 camera. But ultimately, you’ve had, like, HBO shows that are edited with imovie.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
So it’s not about the camera to a certain extent, I would imagine, like, at a certain point. I mean, I guess I’m hoping that you’re gonna say it does matter because we spent a bunch of money on these cameras.

Aaron Horner
No, it does. It does. It’s not the most important thing, but it, like, you know, the camera kind of limits what you can do. I always tell people that, like, if they’re trying to get started, I think that argument works better for social media. Then, fine. Use your phone. Film that kind of Stuff, just make things. But if you’re really trying to get across the quality of work that you do and make something that looks prestigious, then you need a higher quality camera and somebody who knows how to work it.

Logan Shinholser
Because I’m a firm believer of. I know we all have to get started somehow. And when I first look back, the YouTube videos that I produced nine years ago, yeah, at the time it was like the best that I got, but back. But I think at that point it was like, okay, nobody. It wasn’t that common to be doing YouTube. Like, it wasn’t nearly as big as it is now. So, like, I feel as if I could get by a little bit more. But when I look back now, I’m like, I would not have hired that guy. Like, it is me in a small office by myself. Yeah, like scribbles on the whiteboard. But I get it was that’s what you had. It’s what I had. But it’s.

Logan Shinholser
It’s again, I think in 2026, if that’s like, it’s to the point where like a resume, like, if you submit a resume for CGN and it’s not done correctly or if it’s like formatted wrong, I’m like, you could have ChatGPT write this thing where it has no errors. You could have Claude. You can go on Instagram and just say, and like, look up, like, you know, resume tips. Like, if you’re not even understanding enough to, like, do that stuff, like, there is a bare minimum at this point of like, resumes that like, if you have formatting errors or if it’s like more than a page long, like, I’m tossing it in the trash because, like, there’s so much information out there that if you can’t figure that out on your own, like, you’re out.

Logan Shinholser
I personally feel the same way when it comes to video where, like. And I also think that, like, interior work versus exterior work is also a very different setup of like, there’s a level of trust that needs to be built up more inside the house versus outside the house.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
But there’s a lot of that goes into it of like, it needs to be good enough quality video, you know, visually then audio wise for people to like, basically trust that, like, okay, this is high quality work that I can see coming from a high quality company.

Aaron Horner
Yeah, yeah. You view people differently. You know, that’s putting out iPhone videos and social media and stuff that looks like it’s like a good video production. Maybe you’ll think, wow, that’s Fantastic. But ideally, like, you don’t even think about the video production. You just think about the work itself. Like, it. It almost gets itself out of the way. So you’re just thinking, wow, that space is beautiful. Like, nobody watches an Architectural Digest video and goes like, wow, those must be some really good videographers. Like, you just think, like, what a beautiful space. So that’s where you’re trying to get to with the production.

Logan Shinholser
There is. I remember when I bought my Hyundai, I was just like, hey, I just want to see. Like, I can’t get to the dealership. Do you have any on the lot? And they’re like, yeah, we have a couple. And I was like, would you mind send me some photos? Like, we’ll send you a video. And they sent me a video, and they edited it. Like a music video where it’s like, they put music to it. And, like, the features that I wanted to see were just, like, the exterior and the interior color. And that’s basically it. Because I’d already test drove one. I just wanted to see what it had. And they were, like, showing me how they can use, like, the remote, like, the fob to pull it forward and backwards remotely.

Logan Shinholser
And, you know, as it’s moving forward, he, like, put, like, a reverse on it. So it’s, like, driving forward, then backwards and forward. Yeah. And it was just like, I didn’t even need a video. I just wanted to see the photo. Like, I get it. Versus, like, if he had done a video that’s like, do you want a video? And I said, sure. And he’s like, all right, I’m getting in. You got your two seats back here. You got your third seats back there.

Aaron Horner
You want the video to get out of the way?

Logan Shinholser
Yeah. I mean, I just wanted to know, like, okay, great. Maybe I hadn’t seen it yet, but in that case, just show me, like, can I put two car seats in this thing comfortably or not? That would have been so much better. Versus, like, check out how sick this was. And, like, it was terrible. I was just like, all right, man. But, like, can you actually send me some photos of the interior? Like, that’s what I want to see.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
So it then became more about, like, the edits, and I think. I’m sure he probably spent a bunch of time editing this thing.

Aaron Horner
He could have just had some filters he thought was cool.

Logan Shinholser
But, yeah, well, he customized it, and it had, let’s say, like, Logan and stuff like that. So, like, he personally edited this thing.

Aaron Horner
And I was like, that’s what’s gonna push you over, right.

Logan Shinholser
And all of a sudden, like, yo, this is sick editing. Like, you pulled it forward to the beat dropping, but when it comes to, like, this sort of stuff. So, like, to your point, it’s less about, like, the edit doesn’t have to be amazing. People who are gonna respect the editing are gonna be other videographers. But to most homeowners, they care more about the story and, like, what was actually done in the space. Less about, like, the technical skills of everything. But it can’t suck.

Aaron Horner
There’s a good parallel here. When I was talking about real estate. If you look up, like, real estate videographers and stuff, they’ll have, like, all these crazy speed ramp transitions. And, like, you’ll see the furn getting built in the house as they’re going through. And, like, they really pride themselves on, like, look how sick this video is. The mark of a good testimonial videographer is you don’t think about it. You just make it to the end of the video and you feel like it was a good use of your time. Like, all of the work that they do, all the work like I pride myself in doing is just making it logically flow. So that way you get to the end, and then when you get there, you feel like it was a good use of your time.

Aaron Horner
Like, the problems that were set up in the beginning were fulfilled. The questions that it raised mid throughout were answered. The questions you had coming into it were answered. That’s what makes a good testimonial.

Logan Shinholser
So let’s just go through the interview so we know where to position them. Lighting’s gotta look good, which is a whole topic in and of itself. Yeah.

Aaron Horner
I mean, you don’t.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah. Audio. Get a microphone. That’s good.

Aaron Horner
Yep.

Logan Shinholser
So let’s move past the technical stuff. Let’s talk about the actual interview questions. You already go in knowing, are they going to move? Are they not going to move?

Aaron Horner
Yep.

Logan Shinholser
And we obviously know the answer was not move. How are you now approaching this interview? Like, what do you have? Like, a set list of, like, These are the 20 questions I’m asking. Is it custom every single time? What does it look like?

Aaron Horner
We have a list of 10 questions I think, that we send out to people. If you want to pull those up. I used to use those a lot more religiously. As I’ve gotten used to it, I’ve. You know, I’d like to think that they’re just innately part of my process now, but I use them less and less. I do Follow very rigid. Like, one of the things I’m very. I like to do for sure is right at the beginning, have the interview. So that way the homeowners aren’t sitting there awkwardly. The tension’s building up, like icing the kicker kind of thing. You’re, you’re coming in, videographer meets them. A little bit of small talk while you’re getting set up. That kind of stuff, make them feel comfortable.

Aaron Horner
I always let people know, like, before we get started, I can just tell them, like, hey, have you guys ever done this before? Is usually one of the things I ask them to make them feel. I’m like, oh, okay, yeah, you’re gonna be whatever their answer is like, oh, well, you’re gonna be fine. It’s gonna be great. If you crazy mess up in some way, we can always take it out. So it’s no worries if you’re talking and then later on you think, like, I wish I hadn’t said that. Just tell me after. I’m not going to make you look dumb. So I tell them all that. And then, you know, the first thing I’ll have them do is an audio check. Say their first and last name, spell it out. That way I can make sure we’re getting it right on the video.

Aaron Horner
Also lets me check audio. But the first question I really ask is, tell me about the scope of work, what was done here? And it might be out of order in that 10 question list, but I always start with that just because it helps frame the rest of the conversation. It’s possible I’m coming in with part of the knowledge of the project, but there’s actually more that went into it than I’m unaware of. And also just goes ahead and starts off making sure that they’ve at some point said that in the interview, because you want for the audience watching to get that very clearly stated.

Logan Shinholser
So you’re asking for the scope of work. I know one of the things you’re also asking is like, where you know, who are you, where you live at? Like, where are we located? Like, at what point do we then get into, like, the storyline? Because it’s like, all right, we just had a kitchen done and boom, boom. That’s more of, like, logical. Like, we call them, like, IQ facts, where it’s like, specific things that were happening. But the EQ part, which is the emotional part, how do you then go from what was the scope of work done here? Or tell me about this project and how do you then transition into, like, okay, well, like, why did you get this kitchen done?

Aaron Horner
Yeah, well, you can naturally transition that. Like, you don’t even have to like, function. Think of specific questions that go that way. Like, we have some written down for you. But a lot of times what I go into is like, okay, you wanted this done. And then one of the first questions I always ask is, why now? Like, you know, a lot of times it’s like, we moved into the house three years ago. We’ve always hated the kitchen. We wanted it done. It’s like, okay, well, why now? And usually that gives you some indicator for, okay, here’s something I can dig into. It’s like, well, our last kid moved out this. At this time of year, or we just had another child. Like, so this happened or something like that.

Aaron Horner
Like, one of our parents is getting elderly, so they’re coming to move in with us. Usually a family change or something like that, but usually that typically wherever that. Here’s why we did it. Now, that can often lead you to the emotional pool.

Logan Shinholser
So on that, how do you know how far to take it? Like, I know we talked at the beginning, like, oh, they’re crying. But like, do you want this person to, like, start crying about, like, I love my kitchen so much that I didn’t move, like, or is it just.

Aaron Horner
Kind of like, if it happens. I mean, we used to do like 30 minute, 40 minute testimonial shoots and it was just taxing to get through. You’re asking a lot of the homeowner. At that point, it immediately becomes more expensive to shoot and to edit because if you shoot for 40 minutes, it’ll take you twice as long to edit that much. So we used to really go into that. And what changed is one day were going through and were studying HGTV with the crew and were looking at how do they format their stories and stuff. I remember the time that they were talking about they had a family member with cancer who had passed away and it was their home and they were working on that home.

Aaron Horner
And they literally just like mentioned that and then went into the thing and they mentioned it a little bit at the end. And I was like, well, this is somebody who died. And they gave it literally all of 15, 30 seconds. Now, it stuck with you throughout the rest of the video, but you don’t have to, like, have them sit there and sob and like, well, tell me about the pain of that and that kind of stuff. Like, you really just need the context for what it is and you can move right on it’s nice if you can have a single emotional line. You know, something that’s like. Like in the video I was editing earlier today, like, there’s a difference between saying, like, so that’s why I went forward with him, or something like that. Or, so let’s get. When can you.

Aaron Horner
When can we get started? I think was what put in, like, that conveyed more eagerness. It was the same idea, but it’s like, oh, now you’re showing that he’s eager to get it done. When can we get started? So it’s nice if you can have an emotional sentence, but you really only need one or two sentences about the emotional pool. You don’t want to linger there.

Logan Shinholser
We don’t need to go this whole thing about. So we talk about the scope. Then it’s like, why now? And it’s like, well, we just. Honestly, were between moving. Or like, my parents are getting older. Or like, my parents are getting older and they slipped.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
And that was the final straw.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
And I guess, is it. I’m guessing it’s more of, like, the heavier of what they say, the shorter it could be. Because, like, in that case of, like, you know, so and so had cancer and they passed away. Like, that is such a heavy statement that, like, you don’t necessarily need to then draw out five minutes of, like, how they died and, like, the journey to death. It was just more of like, that’s so heavy. It’s like, okay.

Aaron Horner
And it’s also like, that’s not what the person watching the video came there for. So it’s almost like you’re bait and switching them and being like, learn about this person’s sad story about cancer. And you’re like, I don’t. I mean, truthfully, don’t care. I’m here to see the thing that I came to see.

Logan Shinholser
So there’s gotta be enough that it’s like, yep, that’s me. Or like, yep, I understand the emotional impact of why they did it, but let’s just move on to the next piece. Okay, so we go through the scope. Then we go through. Why’d you get it done? Let’s say we get deep enough. And on that, it’s not like we need them to say one sentence. It’s more of like, you’re interviewing them, and it might take two or three minutes of them talking through it, but when it comes to the edit, which we’ll get through, then you cut it.

Aaron Horner
Down to a single sentence.

Logan Shinholser
Then you cut it down to the single sentence that gets the impact but you’re still asking, like, why not move? Like, what were your options?

Aaron Horner
Like, you know, the example you gave of, like, my parents fell. Like, I would go into another question based on that. Like, my parents fell. I’d be like, can you tell me about that experience? Like, what was that, like, when you got that call? And if something comes from that. Great. I might.

Logan Shinholser
That’s pretty good. I was thinking when you’re like, I already gone into that. Like, where’d they fall? Or, like, do they slip? Or like, no. Okay, interesting. But it’s like, how did that. Like, how did you, like that whole, like, tell me about the experience of, like, when you got that call. Like, that’s huge.

Aaron Horner
Yeah, yeah. So that might lead into a more emotional bit. And if I cut the question. No big deal.

Logan Shinholser
Okay, so we go back through, like, the why now? Which typically is gonna drop into, like, the emotion behind it. Then are you going back into, like, what were the needs of the project? Or what are the things that you, like, enjoyed about this? Or, like, I mean, I know most remodeling companies, like, their number one thing is going to be all about, like, well, what was it like working with us? And how did you, like, you know, using a project management software and what was it like with your project manager?

Aaron Horner
That’s probably the part of the testimonial I skipped the most.

Logan Shinholser
Like, you as the viewer or you as the.

Aaron Horner
When I’m making them.

Logan Shinholser
Oh, yeah, well, then let’s talk about that. Like, where do you then take it and why do you skip those?

Aaron Horner
So there are times when, like, maybe that’s helpful. Like one of our clients, Seven Day Kitchens. Like, the whole premise is that, like, a lot of stories that they can tell is something like, were moving from this place to this place, and we needed to get the project done in time, and so were at a distance. Well, now your communication efforts become helpful because you’re selling to people that are at a distance. Or the process, they talk about, like, you know, there could be another family. It’s like, we just couldn’t believe how quickly it got done. Like, were noticing the crew was incredibly efficient. Now it’s relevant to their story. Like, there’s a reason they wanted to get it done quickly. Maybe it’s like, they have kids and they didn’t want to move out of the house.

Aaron Horner
So it’s like those little things, you can add them in, but, like, maybe pick one or two and they need to tie into that overarching story that we talked about, because the south park rule, it needs to have relevance to the overarching story. Otherwise your mind just reads it as irrelevant detail, forgets it. And after a while of enough of those, you get bored and turn the video off.

Logan Shinholser
Okay, so this is like in my. With, with my addition. I’ve got two young kids. They did dust protection.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
If I never mentioned the kids, the dust protection then just becomes like irrelevant. Kind of irrelevant. But if I’m like, I got kids. And I needed to make sure as we’re doing this whole thing was like, it was done, you know, like to have this extra space as we’re growing. Like, I wanted to make sure whoever we ended up using was cognizant of that. And then as we’re talking through, like, if we go through a process, it’s like, you know, we’re not doing a five minute spiel about like the entire step by step process. It might just be little vignettes, if you will, around when this thing was getting done as it’s related to a growing family.

Logan Shinholser
What is important, what was important was that everybody is vetted or we have dust protection or we have the ability to put locks on things so, like, Gray doesn’t go in there and try to bust down a door.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
So it’s. The relevancy is what. Yeah.

Aaron Horner
Like, I remember one of these testimonials that I did a while back where the story I went into was like, she really wanted to brighten up the space. I wouldn’t do this now, but went into a lot of like, her house was always dark when she was a kid and her mom would always close the windows and that kind of stuff. So she really wanted to open up. And thinking back on it now, I remember there’s a part where she was talking about, I can’t hope. I hope to God I didn’t put this in the edit. But I know I debated it for a long time because I remember it. She was so impressed with like, the crew that they had coming in that like, she had another previous experience where people had stolen from the house. And she was.

Aaron Horner
She didn’t feel like she was worried about that happening again. Those are two completely different things.

Logan Shinholser
Well, let’s talk about that part because, like, that is because I actually brought this up as an example. Yesterday was like, I watched somebody’s. They had a professional videographer come in and tell the story of the project. And it was. The story part itself was good. The editing was good, the pacing was good. I liked the video but the whole storyline was this remodeling company kept finding dry rot, and they kept fixing it, but the price of the project kept going up. So basically what ended up happening was it wasn’t like, they found it. They fixed it, and we’re good. It was like, they found it, they fixed it. But my project price kept going up and up. And that basically, to me, introduced an entire, like, scenario.

Aaron Horner
It’s like a problem you hadn’t considered before. Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
And, like, there’s a level of, like, you want to be upfront with this stuff, but it’s like, hey, trust me. Like, our crew, nobody’s been to Epstein’s Island. And you’re just like, why? Why would you.

Aaron Horner
Why would you say.

Logan Shinholser
Why would you include that in this? Like, that doesn’t make sense here. So we.

Aaron Horner
We searched through all the documents. Nobody’s name comes up once.

Logan Shinholser
They’ve never been there. Like, nothing redacted. So it just becomes like, okay, it’s a good overall story. But to sell the job, which is basically what the point of these things are, that doesn’t matter as much, or the whole through line, which is like, yeah, they’re gonna get the job done, but it’s gonna cost a lot more than I was thinking it was gonna get done. That also is introducing something negative where it’s, you know, that.

Aaron Horner
Yeah, you could. I mean, because the other way to play that storyline is you. Maybe they were concerned about, like, how long this would last in their home. Like, they know their structural problems. They want to get somebody that’s thorough. And so you. Then you could kind of take it from the perspective of their crew is extremely thorough. And now I have the utmost confidence that we actually have a solid foundation for our house.

Logan Shinholser
Got it. So it’s basically not saying, like, hey, that the thought is still, we trust the crew. And it’s not necessarily saying because the last crew stole from us, where you’re like, oh, shoot. Like that. Like, when Audrey and I were looking for a builder, that was never a thing in our mind was like, do we have to lock up our stuff?

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
But if that was something that I saw was like, hey, you’re gonna have to lock up your stuff. The thought is not like, oh, I’m definitely gonna go with this crew. The thought is, then we’re just at this point, gonna move. Cause I don’t even wanna do a project in the first place, because this just took all the wind out of my sails. It’s no longer like this company versus somebody else. It’s now do I even do this thing at all? Yeah, so not putting that stuff in. So we’re talking about the process a little bit. Let’s talk about like the end result or like the impact of it before we go there.

Aaron Horner
We skipped a section, so I want to go back to it. So after I go through, okay, I know why they want the project done, I know the why they’re doing it. Now the next logical step in the story that sometimes I’ll include if it’s relevant, but I always ask is what did you do next? How did you find, how did you go about finding a contractor? Because one of the things that will tell you is when they answer that question, they often explicitly tell you what’s important to them. And if they’re your, if they are the ideal client, there’s a very good chance what’s important to them is going to be important to your next person. So even if you don’t include it’s great information to have.

Logan Shinholser
Alright, so if they say, I got it from a referral, it was a friend of mine that said, you should go with this company.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Do you just leave it at that?

Aaron Horner
No, it’s like, okay, why them specifically? Why’d they refer you? What, what was important to you? What factors were you looking for when considering this? What was the most important thing to make them the right fit?

Logan Shinholser
So basically what they’re saying is like, oh, they brought up the fact that like, you know, they were super trustworthy. Like the crew is like they checked in every single day. Like they became quote unquote part of the family. Are you then trying to find like anything specific that could then tie back into the storyline as well?

Aaron Horner
I would say like, if I find it great, the middle section I’m less concerned about. It’s more about, do you have a problem set up at the beginning and then clear resolution at the end. If there’s something in the process that you have to include that ties in, then yes. But you can also talk about features and that kind of stuff in the middle. So possibly.

Logan Shinholser
So let’s talk about the feature part. Okay, so features, is it like, hey, highlight the top three things that you like about this space? Is it? Give me all the things.

Aaron Horner
Like ideally they are things relevant to the problem.

Logan Shinholser
So are you asking the interview? They’re like, hey, what are all the things that you like? And ultimately in my case, if I was like, oh, I love the fireplace, I love the ceiling fan and I love the skylights, that had nothing to do with Me adding additional office space into my house? If you take it at face value, yeah. So are you then saying, great, well, tell me about like, why do you like, why the fireplace? Because like, for me, we didn’t initially had the fireplace, but the fireplace then became, well, if we’re going to do this thing, I would love a working fireplace because I would love to have a room that we could do Christmas in.

Aaron Horner
Yep.

Logan Shinholser
So are you then asking, like, why the fireplace? And if they’re like, honestly just love heat, that’s not gonna cut it. But if it’s like, well, we originally didn’t have it, but we started to do it now that’s tying back into.

Aaron Horner
The growing family part of it again. Like, you can think about these in two different ways. Like you can think of these as like upsells or features for people to get excited about something that is part of the thing that solves their problem. That other people watching the video will say, maybe I hadn’t considered how functional that would be. Now that I see it in practice, that would really help solve our problem as well. That’s like the ideal.

Logan Shinholser
Alright, so you’re having them talk about the different things and they’re all still sitting there. And at the end, are you then, like, great, now what does life look like? Would you recommend, like, what would you say to somebody who’s on the fence? Are you asking all those questions again?

Aaron Horner
Yeah. So we go through. Okay, we’ve talked about. I could probably. Yeah, we talk about what they had done, why they wanted it done, why now, how’d they pick a contractor? Then the process stuff that we talked about, a little bit out of order. What was the experience like working with them? What things stood out to you? Specific moments, things like that. If it’s relevant, then I specifically will say, how are you enjoying the space now? How do you find yourself utilizing the space now? How is it different than when you got it? Sometimes I’ll backtrack and say, what did the space feel like before and what does the space feel like now? And then you can in the edit, move some of that stuff forward or backwards, wherever it goes.

Aaron Horner
But getting them to specifically describe the feeling of walking into the space for a lot of spaces, that’s really helpful.

Logan Shinholser
All right, so we have in this interview, how long is that whole thing? You said it used to be like 40 minutes long, which was draining.

Aaron Horner
15 Minutes, 15 minutes, 20 at max. Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Okay, so you’re having to talk through all this stuff and the video at the end is not a 15 or 20 minute video. So before we talk about the editing part of it, because it’s like a huge part of all this stuff. B roll.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
How are you going out? And when we say B roll.

Aaron Horner
Last question. Before we go to B roll. Last question. I always say is, would you recommend them? Obviously. And you know, it’s best if they can say we would recommend. Not just yes, but having them say we would recommend this company. And I always ask, what would you say to somebody in your position who’s on the fence?

Logan Shinholser
Why? Because I feel like the whole time is like we had this project. It was too, you know, my house was too small. We have a second kid on the way. I gotta get this desk out of my house because we have a growing family, yada yada. Now we have this fireplace. We’re going to spend Christmas there. And by the way, you should hire this company. Like that feels out of place.

Aaron Horner
So it shouldn’t because midway through they’re obviously going to meet the remodeler and they’re going to help them solve their problem. And I’m not saying this is a thing you need to go a lot into at the end, but literally a single line in the video saying we would definitely recommend them. Like here’s why it was beneficial to us is you should definitely have that. Sometimes I end with an emotional line about the space. Sometimes I’ll end with an emotional line about their experience working with the remodeler. It depends on which one has a better response in the video specifically.

Logan Shinholser
Okay, so you’re asking about at the end, someone’s on the fence. What are you saying? Or would you recommend them? Why or why not? Hopefully that then ties back into like, they were great, they were reliable, My kids loved them.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
And if it now becomes like my kids love them, that makes it much easier to then consider it in the edit of like. Great, let’s end with that. Like it ties back to the kids.

Aaron Horner
In the interview portion without going overboard again, I’m really. That 20 minute timeline, tops. I’m trying to just collect as much as possible. I have a good idea. But I’m trying to collect stuff and it’s almost like, okay, we got kids hit on the intro, the explanation and kids hit on the dust protection. And we have a good line at the end about the kids. It’s probably going to end up being kids is the main storyline here.

Logan Shinholser
Got it.

Aaron Horner
Maybe we have like, we considered moving here, but we don’t have it for all three pieces. So that’s going to be a less solid angle to take all the way throughout. Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
Okay, perfect. Let’s talk B roll.

Aaron Horner
Yep.

Logan Shinholser
What is B roll?

Aaron Horner
B roll is the footage that is the technical term for the footage that you will see as they’re talking. A roll will be the sit down shot of a person talking. The B roll will be the thing that they are talking about. So if they’re talking about how much they love their new sink or the, you know, the functionality of it, the B roll is going to be a shot of the sink.

Logan Shinholser
So basically this is like you think about, I don’t know, like planet Earth. Like, you have Morgan Freeman narrating it. But as Morgan Freeman, he’s speaking, you’re then seeing shots of the antelope that he’s talking about. Yeah, that is this. So as you’re talking about the sink, it’s not that you’re like then walking over to the sink to then capture the sink as they’re talking about it. This is just straight up. You have one camera interview them about all their stuff. Then is it afterwards that you go in and say, all right, they just talked about these 10 features that they absolutely love. Let’s make sure that we then do a walkthrough showing each of those ten features.

Aaron Horner
Yep. Okay. Yeah, it’s almost like you’re making a checklist. Usually by the end of the interview, I’ll have a pretty solid feeling of, okay, this is what the overall story is going to be. And then that can influence what I go through and shoot throughout the kitchen.

Logan Shinholser
Okay, so you’re just going through at the end and just walking through and basically just capturing all the elements of the kitchen.

Aaron Horner
You want a few different wide shots. If you have before photos or before videos, matching those angles is always helpful. Like literally looking at the before photo and then trying to line it up to make it the most satisfying before, after, like resolution you can have. And then detail shots of everything mentioned in the video. For sure. Yeah. We don’t have to go into the specifics of how to shoot it because I don’t think you guys will need that. But that’s something to be looking out for. And I would say the one thing if you’re thinking about somebody to hire is the video should be mostly shots of the kitchen or the things that they’re talking about. One of the easiest ways to make a testimonial boring is to have a static shot of a person speaking to camera for three minutes.

Logan Shinholser
And we’ve seen that where I remember, like we had Somebody send that to us where like the video, like the story itself was, I would say, a 5 out of 10. The camera work as far as like the setup of the interview was like a 9 out of 10. It looked crisp, it was awesome. But the whole time they were talking about this space and you didn’t see the space until the very last like 10 seconds.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
So you basically had to just for the first two minutes, listen to what they talked about in this one bathroom at the very end, then show the bathroom and then you’re like, oh, okay. But like the whole time it was just focused on them just sitting there.

Aaron Horner
Yeah. You want to as much as possible be showing the space because again, that’s what the person’s coming to see. So at the very beginning of all my videos, when I’m editing them, I put in usually three to five quick clips of here’s what we’re going to see through in the video by the end of it.

Logan Shinholser
So let’s talk about the edit.

Aaron Horner
Okay. All right.

Logan Shinholser
So how do you start this stuff off? Because we’re talking it’s all about the storyline and you want to get people bought into this stuff. But like, we used to start off with the storyline where it led off with like, let’s just show this person talking about their problem and stuff like that. But then Meta actually showed us that was wrong.

Aaron Horner
Yeah. When we did ad testing, we found out that those all did worse.

Logan Shinholser
So basically what was happening was we would have somebody and it would be the homeowner sitting there talking about their kitchen. But ultimately that was not what people wanted to see.

Aaron Horner
Yeah, we’d be like, we put a ton of work into the emotion of like, wow, somehow we’ve packed this into a 30 second thing and like they can still get the concise summary of the story. And then we a b tested that against one that was essentially just some pretty shots of the kitchen and the pretty shots of the kitchen one.

Logan Shinholser
So then how do we then adjust the testimonial? So you said you start off with like a couple shots. Is it’s. Is it the afters? Is it like that what you would consider to be like the quote unquote, like the feature or the money shot? Like, how are you determining? Is it always, like, we always lead off with like the after shots? Because I know sometimes we do also lead off with like just the location where it’s like maybe a sign that says, yeah, welcome to this neighborhood. Because that creates like a neighborly effect. So I guess how do you determine what that opening shot is.

Aaron Horner
Yeah. So this is again becomes important when you think about what’s the purpose of the video, how are you relating to people? If it’s kind of like a one off location, like that’s not going to be super relevant. But the project is very aspirational. That’s what you want them to relate to. Then you put that at the beginning. But a lot of times it’s beneficial. We definitely saw this in ads. If you picked a very small localized area and you said that up front, people when they watch the ad are immediately like, oh, I’m in that area. That directly applies to me. It’s almost the same as like when you’re in a crowd and you hear your name, your attention immediately goes over there.

Logan Shinholser
But a safe bet is going to be just put the after, like a couple after shots of the space at the beginning because that’s going to be the thing that grabs the attention.

Aaron Horner
Well, specifically for ads. Yes. If you’re just thinking about a testimonial, I do both. Like, it will be like, hey, I’m Joe Fry. We’re out here in Tucson today. I want to show you the project that we just finished up for Randall.

Logan Shinholser
Okay. So why is it different? Because I know like the medium in which this is being served, where it’s like if this is a Super bowl commercial where everybody’s huddled around the TV waiting on edge to watch these super bowl commercials, you’ve got a much more captive audience.

Aaron Horner
Yeah. The context is different. When somebody’s coming on the page and clicking it, they’re okay with Joe giving an introduction to himself of what the video is going to be. When you’re just scrolling through social media and they haven’t even really like registered consented almost to being to looking at this project, the thing that’s going to catch their eye immediately could be the project. Like they’re not going to give it. They don’t care who Joe is. They’re not going to give him a second to say his name.

Logan Shinholser
So if we just had a rule of thumb that just said safe bet, whether it’s an ad or it’s a longer video that’s two or three minutes long, what would you say is like a rule of thumb that’s like.

Aaron Horner
Yeah, you can usually start off with some nice music and like three to five shots of the project and then get into the video if you want. Yeah. Okay.

Logan Shinholser
Talk to me a bit more about the edit. Like, I know one of the biggest things that I’ve seen, like you progress on is like, the pacing. So at first, you know, we used to have six, seven minute videos. It was very heavy on the interview. Yes. We’d have some B roll as you went through it. But, you know, we’ve talked about this before. I showed it at a conference, and two minutes in, somebody takes the headphones off, who’s a remodeler, was like, yeah, it’s pretty boring. That’s pretty boring.

Aaron Horner
Midway through, they go like, yeah, I get it. Right?

Logan Shinholser
And that’s bad. That’s like, you know, hey, it’s not you, it’s me. I just don’t have the attention span. It’s like, well, you’re in this space. Like, if this doesn’t capture you, it certainly is not gonna capture a homeowner.

Aaron Horner
It’s like, I get it. Yeah, I could see what was happening.

Logan Shinholser
Right. Which is worse than them going like, this is boring. Cause at least that way, you know.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Logan Shinholser
So talk to me a bit more about, like, when you do the editing, like, how are you then deciding what to keep, what to cut, and then talk about what pacing is?

Aaron Horner
So I think a lot of it we have already talked about with picking whatever that single through line is and just limiting your things to that. You can have all these features that people will bloat the video because they get excited. They’ll have beautiful clips of somebody talking about, like, here’s an amazing feature of this kitchen that’s not relevant to the overall story. Or here’s an amazing experience we had with the contractor and why we love them so much. That’s not relevant to the story. And so you’ll be very tempted to put those things in. But I think we’ve talked a lot in this conversation already about, like, keep that single through line. And that will help a lot with your pacing.

Logan Shinholser
What is pacing?

Aaron Horner
Pacing of the video? This will come in more to editing, I guess. I won’t tell you how to do it. I’ll help you recognize it in other people’s stuff. Like, one of the biggest things I found out is start off faster when you’re showing the. The previews, the end previews of the project and have a musical cue that, like, shows the music and kind of like an aspirational. Oh, cool. This is what we’re gonna see in this video. Then let’s slow things down. Cut maybe no music for a few seconds and introduce the homeowner. And here’s their problem. Then we get into maybe it’s like the before photos or like a design rendering. Now let’s slowly build that music back up. And one of the things I’m doing with music now is. Well, I’ll just say it.

Aaron Horner
They have stems and so it’ll be like the drums and the bass track and the guitar track and something like that. I’ll have all of the tracks there in the beginning, you get the full boom. This is everything that’s part of the song. And now strip it all down and I’ll slowly add instruments as the video goes along. So then by the time you get to the end. Oh, I recognize this song. I heard it in the beginning audibly. You’re doing the same thing that you’re doing visually with the kitchen. So it’s.

Logan Shinholser
Oh, so you’re like building, like, as a story is building. You’re also building up like the music cues with it where as you keep introducing a new track into it or.

Aaron Horner
A new instrument, Joe comes into the story. So now we add in the bass line. It keeps us moving along. The bass line is like keeping a steady beat. Like it’s starting, like you’re feeling momentum build and things like that. The video we just finished up for him, like at the very end, there’s this like beautiful violin part that I just have at the very beginning. And just at the very end.

Logan Shinholser
Could you. Could you put the audio of that in this podcast and just say, this is what I mean. Like, you’ll miss all the visuals. Sure. Could you show what you’re. Or like, let them listen to like how that stuff builds and that way you can kind of hear it.

Aaron Horner
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. My name is Joe with Frei Remodeling and Construction. We’re out here in Tucson, Arizona, and I want to show you what we did in this bathroom.

Logan Shinholser
The bathroom was a 3 foot by 3 foot stall in a master bath. And I need to be able to sit down when I take a shower. So a 3 foot by 3 foot shower is just not going to work. Now since I’m an engineer, I. I put a design down on paper that took out the existing alcove wall, put a pony wall and put glass and have a walk in shower that has no door. And so I knew I had to find a remodeler that had experience in this. I looked at remodelers on Google and that’s where I met Joe. Joe knew exactly what I was talking about. He said, oh, I have pictures of something like that.

Aaron Horner
I was like, hey, Randall, this is exactly what we did for this client like two years ago. We can do what your vision is here and make it very accessible for you.

Logan Shinholser
I said, well, let’s get me on the schedule.

Aaron Horner
So what we did is built this 52 inch pony wall. We put the mixer valve here and then this is the diverter. So that way you can turn on the shower before you hop in, get it nice and warm, get it to your temperature before you hop in there. A couple of grab bars. We got the rain head, shower head with a handheld and then another handheld down here. Lots of usability in here as far as all those features go.

Logan Shinholser
I’m enjoying my new space. I can actually have a corner seat in the walk in area and a corner seat where the shower heads are.

Aaron Horner
He can get a chair in here, he can sit in the bench and just makes it really functional for him where he can and enjoy it and not have any restrictive issues as far as taking a shower.

Logan Shinholser
So it’s hard to find people like Joe. And all I can say is after working with other contractors, once I found the real contractor in town here, dry remodeling. That’s why I felt comfortable.

Aaron Horner
So if you’re looking to get a remodel project done on your home, feel free to go to our website, reach out to us, and we’d love to grab a phone call with you and see how we can help you out.

Logan Shinholser
Because that would be cool. Because that’s like, this is like, as you’re explaining, like, I didn’t know any of that stuff, but like, it’s like the whole Ben and Jerry’s was so, you know, like their flavors are so good because one of them, whether Ben or Jerry, has anosmia and he can’t smell or taste. So basically he was the official taste tester. He did everything based off texture. The texture is a huge part of why things taste good or bad.

Aaron Horner
Yeah, so that’s exactly what I mean when I say like a good video editor. You won’t think about it, you’ll just feel it and you’ll feel like it was a good use of your time. There’s a bunch of tricks you can play to do that. And the audio is one of those tricks of you hear a chorus that’s typically if somebody’s making a song, it’s something that’s pleasing to your ear and then you’re slowly teasing them to that until at the end you play it again. And now it hits further because you’ve had the buildup for it, you remember it and now you recall it and you’re like, oh, I like that you don’t think that, like, you aren’t consciously thinking that, but that’s what happens.

Logan Shinholser
So basically in the edit, you’re trying to keep this thing. When we say pacing, it’s not necessarily that, like you want the whole thing to feel very fast, like a TikTok video. It’s more of like the things that, when you want to capture attention, that’s got to be fast. But when you want to draw out the storyline, that can slow it down. But then you want to make sure that you’re kind of playing with the speed based off of, I guess, whatever segment of the video you’re in, whatever the message is.

Aaron Horner
And I used to get cute and try like, oh, we did this and things were going well and then this thing happened and let’s slow it down again. I think for a testimonial you really only need the one arc of like, let’s go fast, then we’re gonna start off slow and slowly speed up.

Logan Shinholser
Okay. So you’re not like, okay, because it’s not like, because if you go super fast of like, yeah, they had cancer and died. Boom, right in the next thing it’s like, yeah, it’s too fast for something heavy.

Aaron Horner
Yeah, yeah. So it’s a movie can go up and down and up and down because it has a two hour runtime, but for three minutes, you really don’t need that.

Logan Shinholser
And is three minutes kind of like the rule of thumb here?

Aaron Horner
Two to three minutes is what I like.

Logan Shinholser
So basically you’re trying to take a $300,000 project with all this emotion, all this storyline and everything and whittle it down into two minutes. And you may be thinking, wow. I remember doing this for premier Ponds for my dad’s pawn company where I was like, this is going to be an amazing testimonial. It was like 13 minutes long and they were just singing the praises. And there was like this guy was like a customer experience officer. His job was all about client experience. So I thought, this is going to be amazing. I had the pond in the background, they were sitting there and it was awesome. It was 13 minutes. People barely watched it.

Aaron Horner
Yeah. When you think about the experience of somebody watching it, what are they getting from that after a certain point?

Logan Shinholser
Right. But at the time I thought, this is exactly what somebody who’s going to spend all this money is going to want to sit here and watch 13 minutes to then hear at the end this guy’s credibility, that he’s a cxo and all this Stuff. But ultimately it was like, nobody watched it.

Aaron Horner
Yeah. Because I’ve been thinking about this a lot recently. Is like, if somebody’s actually trying to get real tactical information about should they trust you, they’ll go to your reviews. They’re not gonna watch a testimonial. Yeah, like, you have a control of the edit for a testimonial. You don’t have control of the edit for reviews. I mean, I guess you can get stuff removed sometimes and things like that if it’s not legit. But like, if they’re wanting just the pure, logical information, they’re going to your reviews now. You can get them more emotionally bought in. Once they’re already like, leaning towards you. Like, then there’s a state of like, they want to verify you and they kind of want it to be true. Like, they’re like, I think this is good. I just want to get excited at this point.

Aaron Horner
I want to watch more stuff. That’s what the testimonial is good for.

Logan Shinholser
Got it. So then to kind of end it here, we’ve talked about how to set the testimonial up ahead of time. The actual capturing of it. What interview questions are we meant to be asking? What is B roll? The edit? Out of all those things, what would you say is, like, the most important thing to get right?

Aaron Horner
It’s really tough.

Logan Shinholser
Cause you kind of need it all,.

Aaron Horner
But, like, you need it all. But I guess I would have to say the edit. Yeah. Because that’s where, I mean, that’s the thing that has the lasting impact on it. Like, you can have absolutely gorgeous visuals in an amazing interview. But if your edit is again, 13 minutes long, people aren’t gonna watch it. It’s gonna be boring. And on the flip side, like, editing is what I take the most pride in. Because there are times where I’ve really screwed stuff up in the shoot. I’m like, that did not go the way I want it to, or this thing looks bad. But if you’re creative in the edit, you can make it work. And sometimes it even works better. Past mistake you made. You can turn it around and make brings you something new out of it. So I would say the edit.

Logan Shinholser
Cool.

Aaron Horner
Anything.

Logan Shinholser
Final thoughts on video testimonials we haven’t talked about?

Aaron Horner
I don’t think so. I just hope people take away that. Like, there’s more to this than doing it yourself. Like, maybe if you’re just taking away the idea of, like, a good edit is one I’m not thinking about. I’m just feeling emotional. About the story or I got all the way through. Hopefully that will open your eyes a little bit as you’re assessing who the hire and things like that.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah, my whole goal of this is like, not necessarily to say, like, do not go out and do these because, like, they are beneficial, but for a lot of people, like, especially everybody who I’ve talked to about this stuff, I’m like, you got to first focus on, like, other things, which is like social media videos are easier to do because it’s more like, yeah, forgiving. It’s in and out. These are meant to be the things that like, sell the work and get people really emotionally bought in from a persuasion standpoint versus, like straight up, like education. So, like, these need to be really well thought out. It’s not just like, let’s just rip some stuff together again. You can do it, but it’s not going to have the impact that you want it to have.

Logan Shinholser
So just before you go out and spend a bunch of money on these things, like, really identify what are the storylines that we want? Are they the right people? Do we then have the right video company that can then ask the right questions and edit it the right way? It’s probably still going to take you a year of consistently doing this stuff to then really get this stuff super dialed in. But ultimately, like, they’re super impactful if you can get them right.

Aaron Horner
Yeah. I would point you to a couple of resources. We’ll put in the show notes of this. If you’re at this point and you’re thinking you want to kind of take on the interview and things like that yourself, we have our question list. I’ll put in the show notes. You can go through and do that. I have a few video walkthroughs of. Here’s how I run a testimonial. Here’s what I ask, here’s why I ask it. Here’s what I’m thinking about. Shorter, more tactical resources that you can watch videos on as well as we’ll put in the YouTube channel link to the people that we’ve done video testimonial for in the past. Like, we have a playlist where you can go through and see a bunch of good examples of good video testimonials.

Aaron Horner
So then as you’re looking to hire somebody and you’re saying, well, how do I judge? You can look at these and have something to base it off of.

Logan Shinholser
And we’ll just put a. We’ll just do like cgn.com I don’t know, video or contractor growthnetwork.com video we’ll make that just like if you don’t want to go to the show notes, because I don’t think I’ve ever gone to somebody’s show notes before.

Aaron Horner
Oh, you should sometimes. There’s good stuff down there. All right.

Logan Shinholser
Well, either way, being a person who writes show notes. Yeah. Video. You can go grab all the stuff there.

Aaron Horner
Cool.

Logan Shinholser
Cool. See you guys. Sam.

   Transcribed by https://fireflies.ai/