Luxury Home Branding for Billion Dollar Clients

Aaron Horner
Today we’re talking to JobTread’s 2025 Builder of the Year, Devon Vought. Devon, through his company Vought Construction, is a luxury home builder in the Bay Area of California that is regularly targeting prospects who are worth over a billion dollars. So today he’s coming on the podcast to share with you some of how he actually gets these high end projects from these billion dollar homeowners and the little steps you can be doing today to continue to raise your average job size and start landing those high end projects that you want to complete.

Logan Shinholser
Everyone, welcome back to the Contractor Growth Network podcast. Today I am joined by- He’s been on the podcast before- Devon Vought, but since he’s been on the podcast he has actually won the 2025 job treads home Builder of the Year, Devon Vought of Vought Construction. Devon, welcome back.

Devon Vought
Yeah, great to be back. Nice to talk to you again.

Logan Shinholser
What we’re going through today is Devon reached out and well, you tell us the backstory. You were just in Fort Worth. Give us the backstory of why we’re here today and what we’re going to be going through.

Devon Vought
Yeah, I’m part of Remodelers Advantage. It’s a peer group and we meet every six months. There’s about eight or nine of us in my group of other contractors and we spend a week with each other and we look at each other’s books and we look at each other’s websites and all these different things and just kind of work with each other. But one of the big things I was doing while I was there was looking at everybody’s website, how they’re branding their company, how they’re marketing their company and that ended up being a big conversation during the group and I just noticed how much all of my group members are wanting to cater to these higher end clients, but they’re not coming off as higher end contractors.

Devon Vought
And convincing them to spend like their clients are going to spend, you know, you need to spend some money on your marketing, on your appearance, on your branding so that you can get these higher end clients. And that’s, I got a lot of pushback and so that’s why I reached out to you, Logan, at cgn, because you all are great at the branding and just thought we should talk about it and maybe we could help some people.

Logan Shinholser
So let’s talk about your clientele first. So just to set the stage because like I hop on the phone with contractors and people all the time and everybody says I do high end and then When I actually look at the work and I talked about their clientele, there’s a lot of mismatches where people think, oh, I work with upper middle class. And I’m like, when I actually break down what upper middle class in your area is, those people can’t afford what you’re trying to sell, but you’re trying to cater to upper middle class. So like talk about your clientele, Devon, what you do, who you cater to, because you have a pretty discerning clientele.

Devon Vought
I would say we do in high end is getting a little watered down. I know all contractors use that terminology and it’s be a little deceiving to the clients, but our clientele, they span, you know, over the Bay area and in the Bay Area we have a lot of tax tech executives, we have a lot of professionals. I even some of my clients are younger. They’re, they’ve built companies or they work for large companies. And I have clients in their 30s that are able to build these multi million dollar homes. But they are very discerning in the sense that they’re going to be paying, I mean Maybe they’re paying $5,000 for a little light fixture. Now you’ve got to be the type of company that comes off as an artist really. You know, they don’t want Chuck in a truck showing up.

Devon Vought
They want to be able to trust you. They want to know that you’re on their same level, that they could see you at the same party as them. And these clients, they span all professions though. But their net worth, like I don’t want to give too much away about my clients, you know, take care of their privacy. But they’re, you know, some of them have well in excess of billions.

Logan Shinholser
Okay. So basically most of the clientele you work with could pretty much retire today, regardless of where they, what age they are.

Devon Vought
Yeah, a lot of the clients, they’re, you know, they’re working for fun. They’re, they’re doing things that they enjoy. They’re not necessarily going to a 9 to 5. And so that this project is a center focus in their life at this moment. So they are spending a lot of time with you engaged in the project. They’re not, you know, off at work every day.

Logan Shinholser
So talk about like when we talk like you reach out, you said, you know, I went out there, we talked about branding. When you then define branding, how are you talking about it amongst your peer group?

Devon Vought
Yeah, that’s a great question. So when I think of branding, I Think of seeing it enough time so that people know you’re the company. I’m thinking about when the salesperson shows up that the company’s branded so well that the salesperson doesn’t really need to do much to sell it. You know, the branding sells the work. So it, yeah, everything is consistent across the company. Everybody is, has the same level of professionalism. You know, there’s structures in place that are proprietary to our brand that make us stand out.

Logan Shinholser
What do you mean by structures? Because I, I think when most people think of branding, what they’re thinking of is like basically your logo and maybe like a tagline. But when you’re talking about like the structures, what do you mean?

Devon Vought
So we’ve kind of developed this client journey process. It’s like more proprietary. We don’t show this to the clients, but it’s like, you know, what happens on the demo day? Are we, you know, what kind of party is that going to be? How do we lead up to the courting of the clients? Are we taking them out on dinner this night? You know, are we doing these kind of things? Are we going to have a drywall party? You know, are we going to cater something during this process? But trying to keep the clients engaged through this roller coaster and having a structure in place for that, you know, it’s like at these low points, do we send out, you know, some handmade chocolates or something? You know, all these things to keep them engaged. And I think that’s also part of the branding.

Devon Vought
You know, when people think of Vought Construction, they’re not thinking of construction company, they’re thinking of this high end management company that caters and you know, has a white glove service.

Logan Shinholser
So let’s talk through the client experience part because you’re talking less about the V that’s on your chest and you’re talking more about how somebody is going to basically experience the company Vought rather than what they’re just like looking at on like letterhead. So when you’re going through this customer journey or this experience and really thinking through like almost like the empathy side of the client, is this something that you just like read in a book? Is this something that you’ve learned the hard way? Or is this just something that’s like innate to you that you’re like, honestly? Because like, as somebody, like I’ve now, you know, I’ve been through several remodel projects at my house, some good, some not good. You know, I’ve kind of seen it all from like a customer standpoint.

Logan Shinholser
And like, I have a lot of insight of what works and what doesn’t work. But for you, how did you start to think through this stuff? Is it natural? Is it not natural?

Devon Vought
Well, I got started in the industry pretty young and I saw that, I mean, I fell in construction. I think we’ve talked about my story a little bit and I just saw that how poorly people in construction were looked at and the horror stories around this. And it’s kind of been my unspoken intention of the industry to just elevate it across the board. And I think that we can make construction be something people have pride in, but it has to come up to the same level as a doctor and an attorney, those kind of persons professions.

Devon Vought
And for me that’s, you know, every time I, I experience somebody that has impeccable service, like if it’s staying at the Ritz or it’s staying at, you know, these high end kind of luxury resorts, and you just see the intention they put on you or the attention they put on you. That, that’s always really stuck with me. And I just believe that we can get rid of these horror stories in construction. We don’t have to keep doing this. Construction can be fun for people. And I think that the, you know, construction’s, it’s not easy. I don’t want to say that it’s easy, but it, the actual work itself is low on the experience of what people go through. You know, it’s like, how are we treating these people? That’s, that’s what really matters at the end of the day.

Devon Vought
You know, I had a client come in and see, come in from London recently and we had everything set up for them and handmade pastries and like really nice stuff in the middle of a construction site. And tears came to her eyes because she hadn’t been there for months. And then she sees how well we’re taking care of her. And those are things that people remember, not necessarily the change orders. And I don’t know, it’s fun. You know, we can care about people, we can be of service to people.

Logan Shinholser
And if you had to be very, I don’t know, candid, do you like to do that stuff because you want the tears to come and you’re like, I want her to remember this or is it like, is it fun for you? It’s almost like a game that. It’s like, how can I wow this person? But you’re not necessarily doing it as like, I want the person to be super stoked. But it’s more of like, you know, can I challenge myself to wow this person with something?

Devon Vought
Yeah, it’s a game. Yeah, I, I absolutely love it. I think I was put on this earth to be of service to people. Luckily, you know, I have my business partner, Jorge that focuses on the money, so we get paid. But I just want to, yeah, I just want to help people and I want to like, what can I do to be so creative and like, I don’t know, something that they’ve never experienced that they can tell people about. Yeah, it’s a lot of fun.

Logan Shinholser
And with this sort of stuff, I mean, none of this has to do with a logo or fonts or taglines. I mean, it kind of builds into it because ultimately if, you know, if you want to be seen as modern because you’re doing modern setup, then you probably want something that’s more modern rather than like a rustic feel. So it does manifest to a certain extent. But when you then look at, like just take the branding side out, but just the way that you’re focusing on the client experience, the wow moments, all that sort of stuff, how much of the other people in your roundtable are like also going through the same process of how do I wow them on day one, on day 30, you know, 30 days after the build’s done?

Logan Shinholser
Like, is that just like everybody does it, but not everybody does it where they can showcase it or is it not everybody does it?

Devon Vought
I think everybody would like to say that they do it. And I don’t think everybody’s doing it. I think a very small percentage of us are doing it. And I would think that their hearts in the right places. But a big problem with contractors that I see, and I had the same problem, is the getting so focused on working in the business that you don’t have time to work on the business. And when I take a long weekend and I take a trip with my girlfriend or something, I’m just thinking about, wow, what if we did this? What if we do this? But I think people are so entrenched in the day to day and most contractors, it can be hard. And I think that’s what’s going on, is they would love to be creative and love to do these things to the clients.

Devon Vought
They just don’t have the time.

Logan Shinholser
And how much of this is like, I mean, you go out to dinner with your clients, you go out to dinner with architects, like, you’re basically mingling more in this world, like, you just went to a big event up in, you know, Marin county, which is a very expensive area, and you’re like, mingling with all these people. How much of that impacts your ability to then understand what goes through the minds of your clientele. So you could actually understand. Oh, they would probably like this thing.

Devon Vought
Yeah, that’s a great point. That’s again, getting us back to the same levels. Jorge and I, night before last, went out with our. Some of our clients that we love. It’s been five years anniversary was five years Mother’s Day since we finished their. Their project. And I reached out because they referred us to somebody. And so I reached out and said, let’s take you out to dinner. It’d be nice to catch up. And, you know, they wanted to go out to a really nice dinner. And it gives you a sense when you spend a little bit of time with them, you know, what they, what their expectations are, what they out. And so what I’ve started doing now is we’ve got. We’re about to start a new project.

Devon Vought
And so after the kickoff meeting where we say, hey, this is, you know, our project manager and blah, I’m going to take them out to dinner for the first time. And it just, I don’t know that’s, that’s the way of getting into their world because you never know what they might say. There might be something really small that you could do for them that is just like, I don’t know, maybe it’s. They share a particular place they want to go or, I mean, you could. Anything, it’s endless. But. But you have to be with them. You know, you have to be with these people and get into their world.

Devon Vought
And if you’re not, you’re thinking from your world, it’s like, you know, trying to get the people in the field to understand how much furniture costs in these houses and to not put their tools on these things and to just like, be sharing constantly and getting feedback from these people to know what they care about.

Logan Shinholser
Because I’d imagine most of your clients probably there’s not much that they can’t afford on their own. Like they could buy all this stuff. But it sounds like a lot of, like, those little memories that’s like, it’s. It’s simple, but you got to be thinking about it. It’s the pastries when they fly in from London. I mean, that probably cost you 50 bucks max, nothing. But like, you Know it’s special when it comes from somewhere that they weren’t expecting it rather than their assistant set it up and said, hey, by the way, I’ll have breakfast there for you. Like that’s fine, that’s the assistant’s job. Rather than like the quote unquote builder coming in and saying, I thought through this stuff that makes it cool. And that’s probably why she cried.

Logan Shinholser
I would guess is why she cried is like it’s the unexpectedness of it rather than even if you had told her ahead of time, hey, when you show up, do you want me to bring breakfast? It just kind of takes some of the appeal away from it as well.

Devon Vought
Yeah, it doesn’t have to be a big thing. It can be like you said, it can be a little $40 or $50 pastry, whatever it is. But again, this is where you have to step out of the company. Step some. And it’s so hard for guys to do and because to step back, you usually have to hire somebody. And it’s hard for contractors to also understand that hiring of somebody is going to make you more money in the long run. You just, you just have to deal with it. You got to go with it through the onboarding on all these things. And you know, I, I like doing this stuff, but I see I spent a couple hours on it yesterday looking at the different tracks.

Devon Vought
You know, there’s the getting the leads, there’s the nurturing the leads, there’s the pre construction and then post construction warranty. And you have all these different tracks that you should be sending out a handwritten card at the anniversary date. You should be sending out a box of chocolates when they start this or whatever it is. And so I can see that I need to hire, you know, customer success person that kind of handles all this stuff. But it’s just when you do those things, it really does elevate the company because at the end of the day it’s about what you can charge and what people are going to pay for. And for me, I’ll pay extra for a good experience any day.

Logan Shinholser
So how does that then. So you take all these structures, all these little things that you’re building up, how does that then translate into branding? Where. And we won’t even go to like the logo quite yet, although you did bring up that example off camera and we’ll go through that. But from a brand perception, how do you then in your mind manifest that if that’s what you stand for as a company, what would you want to be doing or what were you talking to your peer group about? Of like, look, if you want to be known as this and you want to go after these high end people and you’re doing these special things, let’s go through what you’re seeing and what’s important to your clientele that you’re then broadcasting out online.

Devon Vought
Yeah,.

Logan Shinholser
I mean, is it just photos? Is it the website? Is it you’re actually like going to these events? Like, is it like what’s that public perception look like in your mind that you’re like, I want this to be known.

Devon Vought
Yeah, it’s a lot of those things. It’s, you know, I like doing the podcast, I like giving talks. But how do you convey that you’re an expert in the area, you know, in this, this arena? And I’m just thinking about a couple of the members in my group and yeah, you’re right, the branding is kind of low. I mean the logo and that kind of stuff can be low on the list. It’s, it’s really. What do you think of when you see that logo and what do you think of the company and I don’t know, ask some, ask a little more about.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah, so talk to me about like, okay, let’s say for example, you’re getting, you’re working on uniforms for the team right now, right? Why?

Devon Vought
Well, because nobody else is doing it. And. Well, I want, when Vought Construction shows up and this is why I was saying, like, I, when you travel and when you go to nicer places, you see, you start seeing how other people are doing it and you see how they dress and how they carry themselves. And it’s almost, it’s not fragmented. It’s this monolith, this entity that’s built of all these other people. And with the uniforms, it’s like I want everybody to be in collared shirts, you know, button down shirts that are all branded same color. And I’m just thinking about when these guys get out of the trucks that are all wrapped in the same colors and everything and they get out and you see them coming up to your door like these most professional.

Devon Vought
Instead of the guy, you know, beer cans falling out of the truck or whatever. You know, it’s like having this professionalism across the board so that when you look out at our job sites, you know exactly who has bought construction because they have an era about themselves. You know, they have this. Yeah, it’s just like that’s them. And so is that like you have.

Logan Shinholser
Like subs wearing it? Is it like the hell, even the guys doing demo are coming out and wearing like a full button down?

Devon Vought
Well, the guys, yeah. So this is kind of a little bit of that broken window theory, you know, in New York where they fix all the windows. Okay, well, what is it? Oh, okay. Well, it’s, I think it’s. Send one of Gladwell’s books about how New York went around just fixing broken windows and eventually, you know, they’re still getting broken, but they’re fixing them, fixing them. And how just fixing those windows started to bring up the neighborhoods in a way where people start throwing less trash. You, you see it everywhere. It’s like if you go over somebody’s house and it’s dirty, you’re going to treat it dirty. But if you go to somebody’s house, it’s impeccable. You’re not going to leave a Coke can on the counter.

Devon Vought
And so when you raise, you know, our bar, everybody around us, you know, they may not come all the way up to us, but they’re going to be in the space of professionals, so they’re going to act professional. So I don’t necessarily have to make all my subs wear our uniforms. However, I do have them carry themselves the vault way when they’re on our site.

Logan Shinholser
What does that mean? Like how do you define the vault way?

Devon Vought
Well, don’t leave trash around and pick up, you know, clean. I mean that’s really, it’s just being clean and organized. Do not leave stuff for other people. And you really have to treat these homes not as a job site. This is, this is a home, you know, it’s not a job site. And just we have signs posted, you know, and our values and those kind of things, but just like, yeah, just really being clean. I mean that’s my biggest thing. And it’s, I promise you it’s one of the hardest aspects in construction is just keeping sites clean and organized.

Logan Shinholser
So how are you enforcing that?

Devon Vought
Well, it’s lots of meetings. It’s a, lots of honestly people snitching on each other. So my, my team, if they see a subcontractor that has left a mess or something, they take a picture, it gets sent to the superior and we send it over to the subcontractor’s boss. So it’s kind of a lot of that. I mean, we’re constantly meeting with them and letting them know. And, you know, a big thing that. That helps is just putting trash cans around the site. You know, just going to Home depot and getting $50 trash cans and putting them all around the site. And of course, I have Vought logos on them, but putting those around, that made a huge difference too. So the guys don’t immediately throw that plastic bottle on the ground. They just chunk it in the trash can. So little.

Devon Vought
Little things like that, it’s like that’s.

Logan Shinholser
What Disney World did, where they have, like, trash cans all over so much that it’s like it just. People just throw stuff away because it’s. I don’t. They have some, like, I’m sure rule or grid system that says like every 20ft you gotta have a trash can. But it’s like that exact thing, it sounds like. So you’re basically, what you’re doing is like, there’s. Have you ever heard of the principle? It’s like the rider on the elephant and the path. Have you heard of that before? It’s a really good book called Switch. I’ve read it a couple times and love it. But it’s basically, how do you make change happen? And the whole premise of the book is what often looks like resistance is usually changed. Just a lack of clarity.

Logan Shinholser
And the whole premise of that is you have this rider pretend that Devon is sitting on top of an elephant. And if Devon wants to go left, but the elephant wants to go right, you’re gonna go right because the elephant’s gonna overpower your decision. The Devon or the rider represents logic. Logically, we can say, look to your subs. Look, guys, these homeowners are very discerning. They paid us a lot of money. And logically, if you clean up after yourself, we’re gonna wanna bring you on the next project. That’s logic. Then what outweighs logic is going to be the elephant, and the elephant is the emotion. Emotion is more of like, hey, let’s imagine this is your own home. Like, we see the family, the kids are going to be walking in and out of the job site.

Logan Shinholser
That’s why we can’t be smoking cigarettes, because the kid has, I don’t know, asthma. And yes, logic makes sense, but emotionally, you would feel bad. So that’s your elephant side. But the last piece is the pathway. So the path and shaping of the path is you’ve got. Devon wants to go left, the elephant wants to go left. But if you’re walking through a forest and the forest is driving right and it’s a dense forest. You have no option but to go. Right. Basically, the whole point is you can appeal to logic in different ways. And some scenarios are good for that. Some scenarios are good for dealing with emotion.

Logan Shinholser
But the pathway is ultimately like the most impactful way, because if you can make it easy for somebody to do the things that you want to do, you don’t have to appeal to the logic or the emotion. But what you did is you shaped the pathway by saying, I’m just going to restructure the environment, which is trash cans all over the place, to basically influence the behavior without you having to go in and talk to them. So it’s like, it’s such an easy way that you did that.

Devon Vought
Hands down, that’s across. If it’s Murphy’s law with construction, you know, if it can happen, it will happen. And so we just went to do an internal kind of handoff meeting to. For a project that we’re going to be starting next week. And it’s just going through and seeing, like, protection everywhere. And, you know, talking to the project manager and the superintendent like, oh, people aren’t going to go over there. I’m like, yeah, they are. I don’t know why they would go over there, but they’re going to go over there. So let’s. Let’s, you know, put plywood on everything. Let’s protect everything. And just, you know, it’s like, he’s like, well, we’ll just put caution tape. No, no. They’re just going to go under the caution tape.

Devon Vought
We need actual barriers, you know, so I’ve, like, put, you know, boards over gates so they couldn’t go through them. I mean, all these things that. And it’s fine. It’s like, it’s not that they’re wrong or anything. It’s just. It’s just they’re going to be doing these. So. So you have to look out for that. And it won’t be our team most of the time, it’s the subcontractors. And we’re very dependent on the subcontractors. So we have to understand that we can tell their bosses, we can tell our crew, but it may not get conveyed to that one person. And so you just have to prepare for that, especially with protection and, you know, telling clients, too, to, you know, it’s going to better for you to get your things out of the house.

Devon Vought
We can provide you with a pod, we can provide you with white glove service to move all your belongings. But it’s in the long run, it’s going to cost you less just to get this. These things out, you know?

Logan Shinholser
But you’re shaping that path by saying, look like you’re not going. Logically, it’s a construction site. It’s just going to happen. Deal with it. Or mostly, hey, this is an heirloom. Like, you know, but you’re basically saying, we’ll just move it out for you or we will get a pod right there for you. So basically what you’re doing is you’re removing the friction that now they’re. Because, I mean, we just finished an addition at my house. And, like, we have two little kids. And, like, it’s funny, the email that went out today for CGN’s newsletter was all about the idea of cognitive load, meaning how much brain power it’s like the decision fatigue am I gonna have. And on our project, it was small, but do you want a knob or do you want a handle for the door?

Logan Shinholser
And my wife and I, because we have two little kids, we just did potty training all weekend for want. We are busy, so I don’t want to think through that stuff. So we had a designer, and the designer was great because she’s like, all right, we got to pick out for our stairwell down. Great. We’re going to do Trek stacking. What color? And we’re like, honestly, we don’t care. Just don’t pick the wrong one. But it’s that. So it’s like, we don’t want to think through it. We don’t want to have to do it. But you better not pick the wrong one for us because then you’re going to hear about it, which is not fair to you, but we want you to.

Logan Shinholser
I mean, we just did all of our estate planning, and it’s funny because, like, we had to go through and get all of our statements and all of our account numbers and all this stuff. My wife looked at me, she’s like, God, this is frustrating. And I was like, what’s frustrating? She’s like, we’re paying them all this money and we now have to do all this work. And she’s like, I know. Logically, like, they don’t have access to our bank accounts. They don’t have access to all this stuff. Like, there’s no way that they could do it. But it feels frustrating because basically we’re paying them this money and then they’re adding in blockers, even though logically there’s no way they could know it. So ultimately we upgraded with them and said you guys do it all.

Logan Shinholser
We’ll give you the statement numbers, but you guys make all the transfers yourself. It was well worth the extra, I don’t know, four grand to do that, but now it’s done. And I have another friend that uses the same law firm. It’s still not done. And they’ve been on it for nine months because they said, don’t worry, we will do all this self funding ourselves. We don’t need you to just look at our accounts and transfer the money over. But it’s still not done. So it’s like the pathway was shaped there, but it’s more. So we just, we don’t want you to make the wrong decision. We’ll pay you for the right decision. We just don’t want to have to make the decision because, like, it’s not, I don’t know, I’m going to have to.

Logan Shinholser
Look, if I make the wrong decision on that handle, it’s going to really piss me off. Versus if you make the wrong decision, I can let it go by, but I’d rather just not have you make the decision. I’d rather just delegate it. And that’s what you’re doing with like the homeowner. Your stuff’s going to get messed up. You’re in a construction site, they know that’s the case, but now they got to go through the hoops to either figure out the weekend and do it themselves, hire somebody to do it. But you’re like, look, we’ll just do.

Devon Vought
It like, yeah, it’s convenience. It’s when you’re in your early 20s, you’ll do a lot of things yourself. And then as you get older, you’re like, I’m not going to do that. That’s not worth my time. And then, you know, it’s all levels. So once you get to a level where you just have a lot of money, yeah, you really don’t want to deal with this stuff. And, and there’s a million decisions in construction too. And so we’re constantly just having to give things on kind of a platter, you know, because we’ve gone through it before. So we can say, hey, this is what we recommend and try to limit the options because people can get really in the weeds.

Logan Shinholser
So.

Devon Vought
So, yeah, I mean, it’s all, it’s all convenience and what you’re willing to pay for. But at the end of the day, if you can just provide that experience, if you can provide more than what you’re. You’re charging for, if that makes Sense, you know, like, yeah, for me, I, when traveling, I will pay for nicer amenities just because it. You’re always trading paper for an experience and is that experience worth more than the paper in your pocket? And so that’s what you need to be thinking of when you’re providing these services to people. It’s like you need to be really providing a lot, you know, like really wowing them so that whatever number you give them, they’re like, oh, this is a deal.

Logan Shinholser
I’ve got a good transition because I know Aaron’s probably like, hey, this is supposed to be a branding podcast. So I’ve got a really good transition for this one. So, Devon, have you ever read the book called Selling the Invisible?

Devon Vought
No, but any books you recommend, I always read.

Logan Shinholser
It’s a really good one. And basically the whole premise is your clientele, they can’t experience firsthand what it looks like to work with you unless they actually hire you. And basically the way that it works in like the world of like, how do we prove stuff is you’re either going to have third party validation or first party experience. Third party validation being like a referral, I worked with them. Or the third party being like, hey, you go and prospect, go walk through one of our other clients homes, you can see what it all looks like, that kind of stuff and somebody’s like vouching for you. Or it’s a first party experience. What a first party experience is the person themselves.

Logan Shinholser
If they can’t actually experience working with Devon upfront, then we need to somehow create enough of what we would consider to be an experience beforehand that we’re selling the invisible being. The only way that you’re ever going to know if we are going to do a good job on your home or not is if you somehow can buy into the fact that we’re going to do all these things. But you can’t actually prove that we do these things or not until you go through it. So the selling the invisible is all about we need to basically sell up front that, hey, we will do all these things. There’s no way that you could fact check us until you actually go through it yourself.

Logan Shinholser
But we need to get the branding, we need to get the visuals, we need to basically get all this stuff in a way that you can experience what it’s going to look like to work with Vought before you ever work with Vought. And that is where a lot of this stuff comes in. Because we’re basically telling people, give us 4 million bucks, we’re going to build you a killer house. But you got to trust us. We have third party validation. That helps. But ultimately the only way that you’re going to feel like we did a good job or not is if you actually hire us. So when it comes to the idea of selling the invisible, this is in my mind what you were doing with your peer group where you’re saying this is a vague thing.

Logan Shinholser
There’s a lot of shit that happens behind these walls that people are never going to see. But you got to somehow prove to them that they don’t have to sit there and inspect what goes on behind the drywall. Because the branding, the website, the visuals, the upfront touch points that you’re doing is going to sell the idea that we will cover everything else. So with that said, talk to me a bit more about when you think about the idea of selling the invisible through branding, what does that mean to you?

Devon Vought
You always say everything has to go back to the website. So I mean, again, brings me back to the website making sure that those visuals are really good. Having, I mean, you’ve beat this into me too is the, the pictures that show a lived in experience because we can get pictures, you know, the realtor pictures that just show, you know, open room or something. But how do we convey that lived in experience? How do we, you know, show the blanket kind of draped over the couch and show the apple on the counter, those kind of things. I was just, as you were talking, I was also thinking I had to do some work on my new house I just moved into yesterday. And so I had to contact the neighbor because we have to go through her gate.

Devon Vought
And this neighbor is very nice, but she also has the nicest house in the neighborhood. They did at least a 2, $3 million addition remodel on this house. And so I’m kind of thinking, I’m always thinking about that kind of stuff, but how I was interacting with her, you know, very in communication constantly. And this is not somebody I’m actively working with. But I’m, you know, letting her know the plumber’s going to be here on this day. And then I, I beat it into the plumber when you go on this property because you open their gate and it’s like the most well manicured backyard and we have to dig a hole. And so like you need to put those plants back, you need to put everything, you know, wash it all down, like make sure it’s perfect.

Devon Vought
And so I then texted her after it, I said, hey, you know, the inspector passed everything. We put it back together and I’m just texting her and I said, it seems that they cleaned up really well, but is there anything not to your satisfaction that you’d like me to do more? And she’s like, no. They even replanted the plants. I told them not to worry about it, but they did. And like, you know, they went above and beyond and sorry, there’s a train behind me. So. Yeah, but I’m trying to think about like how do we engage with people outside of the work so that they do know what to expect. And so when I take these people out to dinner or if I go to their office and shake their hand, like, who am I?

Devon Vought
And then we’ve been doing a lot lately where we do the pre construction phase and it takes months and months to get an estimate. But a lot of times the clients want us to do things at their house. And this is kind of a little introduction because we don’t have the contract signed yet. But we’re now offering like, hey, you know, during this process, is there anything that we can do any like honeydews around the house that we can help you with? And we can send one of our best guys over and he’ll do some touch ups or hang a light fixture but like trying to get in the door before we’re like. Because you know, we could go through that three or four month pre construction process and they choose to not work with us.

Devon Vought
So how can we give them more experience of us? You know, how can we. Because a lot of the pre construction phase is just so through.

Logan Shinholser
Let me make sure I understand. So basically you’re out there and you’re doing like you’re starting your pre con with them. Is this like for a new home? Like, hey, we’re about to build a new killer home. We’re already sitting in one and that new home’s not going to be done for two years. Once you go through everything in the meantime, as I look around this crappy dump, what can we fix up? Like is it, you know, I’m sure it’s super nice stuff, but like, is it like that where it’s like we’re basically just trying to say we got two years but we want you to start to enjoy a little bit about what that end result is going to get you today.

Logan Shinholser
And that’s going to come from us sending out somebody really good that’s basically like a white collar person with a hammer and a screwdriver. And not a roller, but really more of like a small fine paintbrush. Just to show you what life will look like with Vought.

Devon Vought
Yeah, exactly. Pre construction can take a long time. I mean, a new home literally can take two years. And these large remodels though, we’ve got one that’s, that’s coming up and the client was like, oh, do you have somebody that can come do this? And so we have a couple warranty guys. You know, we do our five year concierge kind of warranty service where these guys are put together. They’re, they’re good at being in people’s homes. They understand the cost of things. They’re not going to lay a tool on the counter. You know, none of that. And so, you know, we send them in and we ask the clients, yeah, is there anything? Because sometimes they’re living in a temporary.

Devon Vought
Or they bought something or it’s just, or a lot of times they just bought a home and they’re going to completely, you know, gut it or do whatever, but they hate the laundry room set up or just something that really annoys them. Perfect. Okay, we can send somebody over for couple thousand dollars. We can show you how we do things. We can mask off everything really well so they just like understand what it’s like working with Vought Construction. And it’s just a great way. It’s not something like we’re going to make any money off of. Like, I’m not. Yeah, we’re not gonna make. It’s, it’s just like this is another marketing thing. It’s just like the warranty service, you know, it’s just getting in these people’s homes and showing them who we are. But you have to show up too.

Devon Vought
Like, you can’t just go to their house and, you know, scratch their calendar.

Logan Shinholser
Then you’re on the clock. When you then think about it this way, like, these are all the little things. What, you know, you brought up with the RA group, like, all right, you’re building up this website, but you got this old school logo that’s, you know, it’s pixelated, it doesn’t look good. How much of that stuff in your mind factors into, let’s just say your clients. Like, it’s kind of hard. Like, what’s the ROI of like a good logo versus, well, you could say what a bad logo is. But like, how do you actually justify this stuff?

Devon Vought
Well, I mean, it’s a manifestation of your Company. I hate to be like that, but it’s like it really is, it’s, you know, if you’re this well put together high end construction company, how does it manifest itself into your marketing and your branding and all these things? But for us, you know, you guys did the first website however many years ago and I feel like that increased our leads. But not only that, like just the way we showed up and were able to charge more just from the new website. And again, you know, you’ve, you’ve redone the website again and it’s just like we look even better now. And you know, it’s part of our qualifying process too. When a lot of people see that website, they’re like we might not be able to afford them. And unfortunately, yeah, some people can’t afford us.

Devon Vought
And it’s, and it’s, you know, none of us contractors want to spend time on leads that aren’t maybe the right fit. And I just think that the roi, it’s a little hard to really judge, but you’re talking about a new website’s going to be like 1% of your revenue and you know that’s going to get you back so many more leads. But it’s not even that. It’s the, it’s the gross profit. Forget about revenue, forget about all just how can you get your gross margin up? And the only way to do that is you got to differentiate yourself. You know, if you’re just a commodity, you’re going to be based all on cost. So you got it. Like in the beginning all they’re doing is looking at contractor A website and contractor B website. How do you show up online?

Devon Vought
What are your reviews look like? And so you’re, yeah, the branding is who do you, who are you online? Because that’s how everybody’s doing it. How do you show up on AI, you know, like all these things and unfortunately we’re in it, we’re in a new age.

Logan Shinholser
So that to me is all that selling the invisible. Because it’s like, and yeah, a lot of this is like if you want to argue for it, you could win the argument. If you want to argue against it, you could win the argument. But like a lot of what, like we talk about like what’s important to us as well as like, you know, homeowners is like if there’s a problem, can I get a hold of Vought on the problem? But A big part of the communication is like, can I even find you online? Is it easy to be able to find you and are you showing up consistently or is it more of like you’re the best kept secret because there’s a level and it’s like deep down. But if Vault messes this thing up for me, I could leave them a bad review.

Logan Shinholser
And because they show up all the time, that’s gonna sting a hell of a lot more for their business than it is in my home versus if I can’t even find you online and I have a bad experience. Unless I wanted to go online and talk about you don’t have skin in this game at all because you could mess this thing up. Unless I go to my very small circle of friends, there’s nothing. And I know that freaks a lot of people out because it’s like, well, of course I don’t want. If I have. Stuff happens, it’s construction. You knock down a wall and you realize there’s dry rot, there’s just nothing. Or yes, there’s things you could have done but we didn’t expect for that or account for that. Coming up.

Logan Shinholser
I don’t want the client to go to Yelp or Google and shout about it. But it’s also like that’s the stuff that keeps the good businesses in business. It’s like we account for that stuff. So the ability to like if communication is big for a homeowner, can they even find you up front? Do they see that you’re active? If you’re really big into design and aesthetic and things that are beautiful, does your website and the photos, do they show off the aesthetic and the design and all that sort of stuff? So it’s like that’s that invisible piece that it’s like. It’s funny because like we put core values on a lot of companies websites because honestly it’s appeasing the business owner. But you know who cares about core values is B2B. You know who doesn’t really care about core values? B2C.

Logan Shinholser
They want to see if you’re like attention to details, one of our big things. Great, then show me close ups of the photos where your craftsmanship came through. And I can see how the joints come together perfectly. Perfectly. That is way more impactful because it’s more of like what you’re talking about with the M word of manifestation that is so much more impactful than me giving. And most core values we see are just like, be on time, do the right thing, be kind. And it’s Like, I get that, but like, those are your core values. But you’re at a 4.4 star on Google. Like, what is it? It’s like, well, we do the core values when the client’s cool and it’s like, well, what about when they’re not cool? What’s up with that? So it’s the manifestation.

Logan Shinholser
A lot of this stuff is really the way that this stuff is seen. And the thing is, it’s funny, when we built your website, we talked about this, but there’s so many little things that you probably still don’t notice about your website that we like. Even on your first one, we created a custom animation that when you hit the X button on the menu, it goes from the hamburger menu to the X and back to the hamburger. There’s little things that, like when your menu pops up on your current website, like, we did a very special menu for you, but we wanted to make sure that the buttons align with where the cursor already was with when they’re clicking on it.

Logan Shinholser
So it’s such a small thing, but it builds and it builds because it’s all like, if you’re going to be meticulous on your job sites and you’re going to be meticulous with your experience, the experience of the website, the meticulous nature of the website, the photos and how they show up, that’s the difference between the companies that, in my mind, it’s like I would look online and go, they’re fine, but I need a referral to trust them. Versus, like, wow, this is killer. I can see how they showcase this thing off in their photos, in their customer reviews. But they didn’t just slap this stuff up. There’s a design element on the website that it shows what they care about.

Logan Shinholser
And that’s a big part of a lot of this stuff is where people can feel and they can experience the company online before they even contact you. That is ultimately the goal. But it comes back down to the idea that you have all these processes. How do we sell that invisible? Because otherwise it’s just going to be a referral game and then you’re stuck on the referral cycle, if you will.

Devon Vought
Yeah, I mean, referrals are still important. But you said something there that was very important too. So consistency, you know, the other customer had said, oh, well, we do our values for the clients we like or whatever, you know, and that’s. I hear that all the time. And I went to a job site the other day and it was. I remember the superintendent or the project manager saying, it’s okay, the client’s okay with it. And I was like, I got a little heated. I said, I don’t give a f what the client wants. Our Vought standard is up here. Client standard is here. And they may be okay with it, but their friends that have more money than them and that have higher standards than them are going to come over and see that and say, font, they’re. They suck.

Devon Vought
You know, like, I don’t want to use them. And so I go to. I go to Starbucks. Not because I like Starbucks coffee, okay? But I know Starbucks. I know what I’m going to get anywhere in the world. I know that I just get an Americano there. I know it’s going to be fine. I can order it in advance on the phone. I know they’re going to have a reasonably clean bathroom. They’re going to have good WI fi. I know what to expect all the time. And they never fail. So how can you be that way in your construction company? You know that people, when they see the Starbucks logo, they know what to expect. So it’s this consistency. And I don’t give a. I don’t care if you don’t like the client.

Devon Vought
You still have to treat them with the same respect as the other ones. And trust me, I’ve had. I’ve had clients that, you know, I don’t want to do the five year. I don’t want to be checking in with them every 90 days. But we do it because that’s the consistency, that’s the branding. And, you know, we might not be so close to that client, but they may still refer us to one of our best clients. And that has happened before. And so it’s just consistency across the board. And again, yeah, you don’t want to people giving you bad reviews because it really does matter these days. Yeah. And. And again, like you were saying, skin in the game. I, I do the same thing with subcontractors because I have to trust them with, you know, 100, $200,000 contracts.

Devon Vought
And when I look them up and I can’t find them, all I can find is, you know, I go on the contractor license board. Okay, they have a license at least. But who are they? You know, so it’s the same thing. It’s like, now I’m gonna entrust this person that I don’t know.

Logan Shinholser
So when you then go back to your roundtable, like, and you explain these things and you go, look, guys like this is. Let’s just think about it from your own world. Like, you can’t even find subs. Like, it’s important to you. Why would a homeowner not care about that stuff? Like, what. What is your. I don’t know, like, what? Like, you. You start all this off, like, off camera. But, like, I’m really into the branding stuff right now and the importance of it and the impact of it. Like, is this something that, like, when you bring it up, they’re like, yeah, here goes Devon again. Like, that works on a $6 million home, but, like, I’m just doing this measly $200,000 kitchen. Like, it’s different and it’s good enough.

Logan Shinholser
Like, I guess what is, like, the feedback or the pushback that you get on this stuff?

Devon Vought
I get all of that. And then you were just saying something about the subs. They were also complaining to me about subs and, you know, pricing and things. And I was seeing. Telling them too, you know, the branding, I. We have subs that reach out to us now because they want to work for Vought Construction. You know, it’s not any more of us going around trying to find the cheapest sub or anything. It’s like, these subs are coming in and they’re like, hey, how can I get my foot in the door with you? And I will offer X number less right now just to. Just to work with you. And these are reputable companies. And so it’s completely across the board. It helps in every way. But a lot of the pushback, it’s. It’s really just. They all want to do it.

Devon Vought
They all want to do it. They worry about the cost. And, you know, I mean, you’ve known me for a little while. I’ve done everything on, like, a shoestring I’ve done. My marketing budget has always been very small because I look for the little things that I can do differently. I’m not trying to spend $10,000 a month on Google Ads. Like, it. I’m not doing any of that kind of stuff. It’s more of the, you know, personal kind of things that I do for people that. That really makes a difference. But with. With my peer group, I think it goes back again to just not having the time to. To put on it. You know, they’re not really giving themselves space to. To be working on this stuff. But, the pushback always is around price too, you know.

Devon Vought
Well, I don’t want to spend that much money on a. On a website. I don’t want to spend that on. On this or that. And sometimes they have to hire people, and I don’t have the time to. To do that. I don’t have the time to onboard.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah, I mean, how important is it?

Devon Vought
Like, to answer your question, I’m getting.

Logan Shinholser
When you think about, like, I was talking to a guy the other day, and he was just like, that’s a lot of money. It’s just a website. And I was like, you know what, man? He was a pool builder. I was like, I watched this video of these two kids indonesia with a stick, and they did an entire pool. I was like, I could make the argument and go, $100,000. It’s just a pool. I saw two kids indonesia use a stick to dig this thing out. And he was like, oh, yeah, Okay. I guess that makes sense. So you could, like, you could minimize in any way that you want of, like, it’s just a kitchen. It’s just a. You know, but, like, the. Because the way that I always look at this is I’m like, okay, let’s just say it’s 25 grand.

Logan Shinholser
How many homes do you have to sell from this thing for a tip roi? And it’s like, well, I guess one. And I’m like, well, hold on. I got my calculator out. It looks like for you, it is. Once you put your margins in there, 3% of one is what you have to do. So it’s a different standard associated with it, but it is, like, it’s the idea that you almost have to buy into it first and for you. Because, again, I’m a big, like, you know, I’m biased. I sell this stuff. So, like, I obviously have a vested interest in it. I’m also, like, obsessed with it. Like, I’m very into. Like, I took my team out, like, the other Christmas for, like, our end of the year party.

Logan Shinholser
I took them to Restoration Hardware for lunch because I wanted them to not just have a good lunch, but I wanted them to walk around Restoration Hardware and see, you see that couch? That’s $30,000. Like, look at how it’s positioned. Restoration Hardware is not selling you a couch. They’re selling you the experience of when you walk in the room. Look at how they show pricing. They don’t hide it. They have it there. But it’s not like you have a huge for sale sign like you would at Ashley Furniture. Look at how this is set up. And they have all this decoration on the wall that is showing. Like, those are things that for sale but it decorates the whole space so the couch looks that much better. So we, like, walked the team through and looked. They position things. What’s important, what’s not important?

Logan Shinholser
When you walk into Restoration Hardware, it smells great. It was like, you don’t walk in and it’s like, man, it’s hot and sticky in here. All that stuff matters. And then you go to lunch up there, and I don’t know how much money they make off lunch up there. That’s not a cheap lunch. I mean, it is like $11 for an espresso. It’s all that kind of stuff. But it’s like, it’s all part of it. Because they don’t want to put a Panda Express at the top of Restoration Hardware. It makes a big difference. So it’s like the whole experience and the manifestation around this stuff. Yes. It’s like, how does Restoration Hardware roi, like the. The food at the top, like the restaurant?

Logan Shinholser
Like, I don’t know, but like, my whole team went in there, you know, we didn’t go in there just to look at fresh food.

Devon Vought
I bet they didn’t have free estimates on what, did they?

Logan Shinholser
No, they didn’t. So it’s. Yeah, I mean, the whole thing is like, it’s. It’s vague, it’s broad, but it really comes down. It’s like the identity piece. And I remember when we first built your first website and we did one of the feature project pages and you sent a message. We still talk about it here at the company because it was like basically saying, I forgot that we do cool stuff until I saw this. Thank you for that. And it was such a cool way that, like, the psychology of how you view yourself, because most homeowners don’t text you consistently going, we love working with you. This is the best. It’s probably like, hey, this is wrong. Can we update this? And that’s basically business ownership.

Logan Shinholser
But when you stop and you kind of put together like a manifestation of like, all the stuff that you’ve worked years and years around, and it’s all around good photos and highlighting how the project came to be and all the little things all together, that kind of makes it all worth it at the end. But if you don’t stop and then build that one, you’re never going to identify with it. And then two clients are never going to see that and go, holy shit. This company spent years talking about how you know how to do this thing perfectly and how to set this all stuff up so you never get to flex that. And then you’re kind of stuck in this. Like, why am I not further along mode, if you will.

Devon Vought
Yeah, well, when I first started, I would still introduce myself as a luxury home builder. I hadn’t built a luxury home yet. And, you know, living into that has you show up a certain way, has you do things differently. You know, it’s like, what would a luxury home builder do in this situation? What. And I, and I see that a lot of times with contractors, they’re. They’re still the chuck in the truck, even though they’ve grown out of it. And so they’re not making the decisions. It’s like, yeah, it’s just living into your future and what would you do? Okay, if I’m already there, what would I be doing today? And I see that’s, that’s lagging where a lot of guys are still kind of looking in the. The past. And I think that’s actually a very big problem.

Devon Vought
Because construction, we have Chucks and trucks, you know, we have the old timers that, you know, this is how we do it, did it back then, and this is how we’re still going to keep doing it. And I don’t know, it just is. Yeah. So somehow we gotta change that mentality and so that we understand that website doesn’t work anymore. Like, where would we be? What would we be doing today if were where we want to be?

Logan Shinholser
Talk to me a bit more about, like, on the pricing conversations that you had. You know, you said people will call you and go, I don’t know if I can afford you, and stuff like that. Like, what is happening when you’re talking through budgets and you’re talking through pricing and you’re trying to set realistic expectations with somebody, knowing that you have beautifully shot photos and you have branding that aligns with it, and you’re basically putting all the meticulous stuff out there online for people to see. So, you know, coming into it, your reputation is kind of preceding you. Does that impact how you approach these conversations?

Devon Vought
Of course. Of course. I mean, well, you get, you have confidence, you show up with confidence. You know, there’s a difference. When you show up knowing that, one, this is something that you could easily do, but two, it’s something that maybe you don’t necessarily need. You know, it’s like they need me more than I need them. And I don’t mean to come off arrogant about that, but it is true. It’s like you could choose to go through a terrible experience or you can hire me. And I think the branding, they’ve already seen a lot of that stuff. They’ve already looked at the website, they kind of know what to expect. They know the process we take them through and I think it just really. Yeah, it gives you. It’s easier to sell so to kind.

Logan Shinholser
Of like put a bow on this. Going back to that idea of selling the invisible. It’s the idea that like the, in a service business, like the brand is basically the product before you’re actually able to deliver it. Thinking about Vought in the next three years, you’re on this brand kick right now. What changes? Like, what do you now do differently? When you’re thinking about the identity of the company, the branding of the company, what you’re focusing on, like, where do you go from here? So it’s basically like once your peer group catches up to where Devon is May 2026, you’re like, oh, that was great for 2026. But like, this is what I’m focusing on now when it comes to like basically how we are being perceived. What does that look like for you?

Devon Vought
Yeah, I know exactly. I mean, what I’m living into now is that Devon Vought is not the figurehead, you know, that Vought Construction stands on its own. I mean, it may even be called something differently one day, but it’s really like this company can sell itself without Devon Vought.

Logan Shinholser
And what is needed for that?

Devon Vought
A lot of branding and really also me stepping out of a lot of the portions of the company so that people don’t really know me, you know, they don’t, you know, it’s like, I don’t know. You’re not, you’re not asking Sam Walton or whoever is at Walmart, you know, like, oh, my thing doesn’t work, you know, so like, yeah, getting out of that, where Devon Vought just isn’t the person. I don’t know if that makes sense. It’s like, yeah, I want to become a company, not just a contractor anymore. Like a, a well established entity that doesn’t rely on just one person. It’s a, it’s a group of, of people that work together and.

Logan Shinholser
That’s where like having the uniforms, like everybody showing up and feeling like we are a unit. So you need the team there because ultimately Devon’s not doing all the construction himself. It is, the team’s doing it. So if we can at least shape the environment for them so they feel more like a unit, they’re going to be able to then feel like they can make more decisions on their own, which then compounds. So next thing you know, Devon’s not getting all these phone calls to go, hey, you know, we got this nail, we needed this nail. What do we do? Do we just go home for the day? And they’re like, you know, so now they know exactly how to operate. But it’s kind of like a but.

Devon Vought
You’ve hired, you’ve hit on the key point, which is hiring the right people for the right seat. And I was just recording an Instagram video before we got on for now, hiring for a project manager and assistant manager because if you’re branded really well, you’re going to attract good talent. You know, you’re going to. And that’s the key to any company. I mean, if, you know, you look at Elon, he didn’t build all those companies, he’s just hired really good people. And so who are you that you can hire good people? Who is the company that others want to work for?

Logan Shinholser
And so, and how much in your mind comes into like one of the big benefits that most is funny, most small businesses or most people don’t even think about because big corporations have it, but job stability. When you think about somebody that’s going to come want to work for you, they’re going to want job stability. Because that’s. If you don’t want job stability, you become an entrepreneur. If you want some level of job stability, you go and work with somebody else. How does the brand impact that, in your opinion?

Devon Vought
Well, this is something that I’ve been thinking about recently because you have. As we, as we grow, we’re now looking for more educated managerial type, you know, very professional, that can interface with the clients and that, you know, they’re going to be there, not me, so they need to be me the vought way when they’re there. And you have the production staff that is really worried about job stability. And some of these guys have known me for a very long time and have been with me for a while because we have had job stability, which, you know, branding helps with that. We’re a reputable company. But for the higher ups, it’s no longer job stability that they’re worried about.

Devon Vought
It’s, you know, do I work for a company that mimics my values, that, you know, I fit in with the culture that I like, the culture that, you know, I’m proud of working here. It’s really not about the paycheck day to day with and the guys that are doing the work, you know, they still care about, you know, getting a bonus or vacation, but really it’s like, all right, is this. Are they paying me every Friday? And we do. But the higher ups, you know, especially millennials like us, they want purpose. They want to make sure that this is the right career path, you know, that this company is on a trajectory that’s going to be fulfilling for them. And that just, again, goes back to the branding. It’s like, who are you in the marketplace?

Devon Vought
I want to work for the homebuilder of the year. Like, I don’t want to work for Joe Schmo, especially in, like, that’s talent wants that confident talent is going to have that kind of mentality. Whereas a guy that’s just looking for a job, oh, I’ve been out of work for two months. You know, it’s like. But when I fill up, when I start putting these job applications or these job postings up, you know, I’m getting a lot of people that are working for other companies. And I, I hate to say it, but you should be taking talent from your competitors. I mean, that’s going to be your good talent, and good talent’s going to be already employed.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah. Love it. Cool. Devon, I appreciate you coming on here and talking through because, I mean, I, you know, talk about this stuff a lot, but I’m also like, I live in it. I see it as a homeowner that spent hundreds of thousands of dollars of projects in the past couple years. Like, it’s not cheap, but, like, I understand, like, what I look at and like, the way that the salesperson, when they’re showing up, like, are they dressed trendy? Because if they’re dressed worse than me, that means they probably have worse taste than me, which means that I should design this thing, not them. So it’s, you know, how do you. How do you. I mean, it’s funny because I’ve talked to, like, my father in law about this because he was really good at. He was a sales manager at Johnson and Johnson.

Logan Shinholser
And I was like, bruce, how would you. And he would, like, he won, like, awards for sales manager of the year, and he’s very into, like, attention to detail stuff, like, to the point where, like, it was tough being a son in law at first, but I was like, how would you talk to your sales reps about, like, hygiene? And he was like, I would just bring it up because, like, that’s a big thing. Because, like, they could be the best salesperson, but if their breath is terrible, they’re gonna lose some deals. And he was like, I just had to do it. So he. We talked. We talked extensively about a lot of that stuff. That’s like, it’s small and it’s a tough conversation, but it’s like, Devon, I gotta say, man, you’re a really good salesperson. You know what to say.

Logan Shinholser
You know how to make people feel. But like, dude, you. You’ve got four total teeth. Like, you gotta get that stuff fixed because, like, you know, it’s gonna cost you a couple grand, but it’s ultimately gonna make you so much more money, which is making you happier. So, like, you know, and it’s. It’s just having an uncomfortable conversation. But, like, it’s those little things that add up over and over. That’s like, that’s where. When you’re showing up to. If you’re showing up to a dinner and you’re like, I want to take these clients out, I imagine you’re not going to shake shack. You’re taking them somewhere nice because then you’re part of that life. Because if it’s like, I imagine if you’re showing up, you’re like, oh, let me get the first bottle of wine for the table.

Logan Shinholser
And you get like the $13 bottle of wine. Because it’s like, then I’m gonna think, oh, maybe that’s what he knows. Maybe he knows $13 bottle of wine. If he knows $13 bottle of wine, he’s probably going to want me to get a GE appliance set. And if that’s what he’s thinking, and it’s just like, it manifests from there. But it’s like that one small thing that I want to make sure that if you’re going to come in and design my kitchen or my house, and design’s important to us. You are more design focused. And if I want to make sure that you have the right systems in place and the order of operations is there, then your shirt should be pressed cleanly versus wrinkled, because it makes a big difference. There’s a lot of those little things.

Logan Shinholser
To me, it’s that selling the invisible. But it all manifests back into that brand. And ultimately the brand is really. This is all the hard work that we’ve done. And if you put yourself in the shoes of the homeowner, all that shit really matters a lot. And it’s funny, the people that it doesn’t matter to are typically the people that don’t have the money and they don’t value the stuff because they just don’t know that they should be valuing this stuff. And to me, that’s what it kind of comes down to.

Devon Vought
Right. It’s, it’s also accumulation of all these things. You don’t have to go tomorrow and completely revamp everything, but it accumulates over time. You know, you do these little things and they just all seem to add up. And yeah, I think it’s, it goes back to kind of living in who you’re going to be and what would you be doing today and so just constantly be, you know. Yeah, I’m not going to take them to Shake Shack. Let’s go to a nice restaurant. You can spend 500 bucks on some clients.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah, fine.

Devon Vought
That’s, you know, especially if they’re going to give you a million dollar contract. Do it.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah, perfect. Cool.

Devon Vought
Yeah. This is great, man.

Logan Shinholser
I appreciate it. Thank you guyss.