If You’re Feeling Stuck In Your Business, Watch This (ft. Tom Reber)

Logan Shinholser
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Contractor Growth Network. I’m Logan Shinholser and today I have an awesome guest. I have Tom Reber coming on the show. Tom is a business coach and entrepreneur known for his work in the contracting and home improvement space. He’s the founder of the Contractor Fight, a coaching and mentoring program aimed at helping contractors and home service business owners grow their businesses and improve profitability. Tom is also an HGTV host. Tom will be speaking at our new era of contracting summit on January 24 and 25th. Enjoy this awesome conversation with Tom Rieber. Tom, how would you define being malleable when approaching new ways of doing business?

Tom Reber
Oh, man. You know, I think it comes down to being open minded. You know, just, we don’t know what we don’t know. And I think when you, it’s about being flexible, right? You gotta be flexible. And so many people get stuck in their ways and they think there’s only one way of doing things. And I think that’s a path to obscurity and irrelevance in any marketplace. So I think the more open minded you could be that there might be a different way of doing things. A more efficient way of doing things is key for anybody running a business.

Logan Shinholser
We all know the saying, you can’t teach an old dog new tricks. So I wanted to ask Tom about business owners that are stuck in their ways.

Tom Reber
Yeah, I mean, I think, what are you doing to learn? Are you consuming a podcast like this? Are you reading a book? Are you part of a mastermind asking questions of people? It’s just having that learner’s spirit. And if it’s been a minute since you’ve read a book or done any of those things, I think that’s probably an indicator that you might be not very flexible in the way you’re running your business.

Logan Shinholser
When we’re thinking about trying new things, not being stuck in our way, and being malleable at the same time? You’ve also got shiny object syndrome, which is all about, oh, there’s the brand new thing, let’s go after it. So how do you balance the two of knowing, let’s stay in the lane and nothing deviate too quickly, but also let’s be open and malleable to things that may really propel the business forward.

Tom Reber
You couldn’t ask that at a better time in my life. So we’re, we just came off of our vision meeting with the core team of the fight, and we got really clear on certain objectives and we’re all rearing to go and we left and we all went home, and within a week, I had 43 new ideas. Right. And so, for me, it’s not about not taking the bait on the shiny object syndrome is having clarity of the commitments you made and where you want to go and what you deemed important before you start getting hit by all those other things and really committing to that plan. I know in the past I’ve probably hijacked myself because I didn’t stay the course on some of the things that. Those commitments that we had around the clarity that we. We developed.

Logan Shinholser
Next. I asked Tom about where innovation actually gets in the way of fundamentals within the business.

Tom Reber
Yeah, I mean, you know, business is, you got to get eyeballs, you got to sell, you got to make a profit, you got to produce. And it’s a. I think as long as the new ideas that you bring in the table support those things, then you’re probably on the right path. Because, you know, who doesn’t want to be more efficient in. In those things that they’re already doing? I mean, you can. You brought up blocking and tackling, you know, I mean, if you can’t protect the quarterback, it doesn’t matter what fancy play you’re running, you know? So I think it’s funny how. How we can often think that there’s. There’s a. A new way of doing things that’s going to blow off the fundamentals, if that makes sense. And there’s not.

Tom Reber
I mean, no matter, like I said, with football, there’s no way, shape, or form you’re going to win a Super bowl if you can’t block and tackle. So I think if the new innovations, or if the innovations that you’re coming up with to solve the problems that you have in your business are in direct conflict with those fundamentals, that’s probably a reason for pause and to rethink your plan.

Logan Shinholser
What are some of those fundamentals that you see contracting company owners stop doing to try to chase that rabbit of innovation?

Tom Reber
I see it a lot with the way people do their estimates, and they sell like they. We live in a world that’s all about automation. And I think automation is great, but I think one of the fundamentals they often blow off is the human touch and the personal connection with another human being. I actually think it’s the opposite. Now, I think that’s a place that you can differentiate, and there’s still ways that you can be efficient and automate certain things, but when you combine those with the tried and true human connection, eye contact, being able to pick the phone up and call somebody and they answer the phone. I think that’s a one two punch that’s going to get you pretty far.

Logan Shinholser
Yeah, we talk a lot about the idea here at CGen of automation versus systematization. That’s a hell of a word. It’s not necessarily that everything has to be done by a computer or software, but we have a system around it. So with that being said, what are some of those misconceptions that contractors have when it comes to innovation and technology? Because we’re told technology is great, embrace it. AI is a new hot thing. But what are some of those issues that are happening between the idea of innovation and technology?

Tom Reber
Well, I think a lot of contractors think that innovation means it needs to be. It needs to be complicated or that it has to be some deep technological thing. You can innovate your sales process by the words that you use. Right. So it’s not necessarily a technical thing when it comes to automations and stuff, but a huge misconception is that implementing some of these auto, you know, what do we call it a minute ago? Autoresponders and ways that we can communicate more efficiently. That it has to be complicated, that you have to know how to do it.

Tom Reber
I mean, Neil was just telling me today about, he was doing some work in Zapier over the weekend with some automations with our site, and they’re beta testing this thing right now where you can literally just tell it what you want it to do and it does it. And you know this because you’re ahead of the curve on a lot of these things. So that’s not complicated. So I think a lot of people shy away from the technology stuff because they think it’s going to be complicated, so they never get around to moving the needle.

Logan Shinholser
This conversation took a little bit of a turn and we started talking all about problem solving and how you innovate problem solving within your business in a very simple way.

Tom Reber
Well, we innovate to solve a problem. So if you don’t have clarity around the problem that you want to solve, then it makes no sense to try to innovate. And so one of those things is going to come down, or that’s going to come down to you getting, again, my favorite word, clarity around the exact problem you’re trying to solve. And is there a way to be more efficient and not lose that human touch? Is there a way to be more effective in the way we communicate, you know, in our processes and our systems? And again, it, like we said before, it doesn’t have to be this crazy technology that you implement. You might have something right under your nose that if we just change the way that we have a conversation with somebody when they call our business, that could be innovation.

Logan Shinholser
So when somebody’s like, I guess the big piece that I just got from that is the clarity around the problem. First, talk to me a little bit more about that because I think a lot of us want to solve the symptom and not actually solve the problem. So talk to me more about the clarity around the problem.

Tom Reber
All right. Well, if you’re not profitable, that’s certainly a problem, right? Because you’re in business to make a profit, and you should make as much profit as you can so that you continue to serve at a high level and take care of your team and your clients. And so if you’re not profitable, let’s take a step back and just keep asking yourself the question, why are we not profitable? And it could simply come down to your multiplier is wrong on your bidding, you’re using a multiplier that you’re setting yourself up for disaster right from day one, from a point of failure. Instead, there’s no fancy technology at this point. It’s just identify, why don’t we have the higher profits? And maybe you are using the right multiplier.

Tom Reber
And maybe then you identify that it’s a production issue in the field, and you go, okay, so the real problem isn’t what we’re selling at. The problem is how we’re producing the work. And that will, again, when you keep asking why several times or how did we get here, you know you’re going to identify that. You know, back at, way back in the day, in one of my companies, our painting company, we realized the biggest issue we had to innovate on, if you want to use that word, was we just had to do a better job of setting up the project with our teams and give a more clear scope and give clear man hours and pre plan a project better. And that had nothing to do with any fancy technology.

Logan Shinholser
And when we’re talking about the identifying and asking all the whys and really figuring that out, I guess that’s the ideal situation. What do most contracting company owners do when problems are arising as far as trying to figure out what’s going on?

Tom Reber
Well, I think the biggest problem is they try to solve the problem themselves. You know, I was on a call earlier today and this guy brought a problem to the table. And I simply asked, I said, well, have you asked your team how they think you can solve this problem. And I think, you know, we feel as owners, entrepreneurs, and owners, that we have to figure everything out, our names on the door. And so I think more, you know, somebody I was speaking to in Vegas at an event a couple months ago, you know, she. She was talking about how collaboration is the new currency, right? And so if you want to solve more problems in your business, get more people in your company on the problem and welcome that perspective.

Tom Reber
I mean, I have a buddy had 100 employees, hired an apprentice, one of their apprentices, he’d been with the company for about two weeks, and in a company meeting, he. The owner asked. He said, guys, we’re having this issue, or, no, I’m sorry. He asked, how did he. How do you phrase it? He said, hey, what do you guys see? And that we’re doing stupid here, that, you know, it’s just not efficient. Whatever it is, anything goes. I don’t care what it is. He just opened it up to the floor. This kid had been with the company about two weeks, shared an idea of something he’s seeing and how they can fix it. And that one little shift, by opening it up to the team, put another ten grand a week of profit into the business.

Logan Shinholser
So that, I mean, that’s awesome. Like, that’s what we all want. As the owner. In your opinion, how do you create almost, like, a safe space where when you ask that question, the two week intern or apprentice doesn’t shy away from actually responding how they feel?

Tom Reber
I think you got a model. Humility, you know, if you want to call it falling on the sword, let’s say profit’s an issue. We’re not finishing jobs on time. As the owner, instead of getting up in front of the company with a big stick and waving it around the room. Let’s go, guys. You know, I think I’m, you know, say you’re doing the estimates, right? Say you’re doing the sales. You’re doing the bidding. Guys, I have a sense that I’m not seeing everything that I need to see, and I. I might not be setting us up for success in the beginning here. When we tackle these projects, it’s probably not just one thing, and I’m sure I’ve got a hand in this, you know? And so it’s modeling the fact that you’re open as well. You’re modeling that coachable attitude, right? That coach.

Tom Reber
You’re creating a culture where it’s safe to do that. And then I think the other thing is, when somebody shares an idea, we all know when you open it up for ideas. Sometimes you get some really stupid ideas, and I think we got to be careful not to judge those in public. I think the best thing you do is just thank them for the idea, take notes just like you do with everybody else. And then the things that stick, go ahead and pursue those more. But when you’re publicly making fun of an idea or something like that, I think that’s going to discourage people from opening their mouths.

Logan Shinholser
I think we all fall victim to becoming so busy in our day to day that we fail to innovate within the businesses and we fail to make time to innovate in the businesses. So I asked Tom, how does he go about innovating in his own businesses?

Tom Reber
I found myself fall into this trap in the past where I’m so hungry for knowledge that I just consume, consume. And there’s been periods where I haven’t actually acted on anything that I’ve learned. And now what I do is I get, again, I sound like a broken record with the word clarity, but I get clarity about what is it that I really want to grow in. So, for example, before we hit record today, I was telling about I’m getting way more involved in our YouTube channel and I have massive clarity of what I want to happen there. So I’m intentionally only consuming content right now that has to do with that. And because that, I know that moves the needle in our business and sets up a lot of other things for success.

Tom Reber
So when I think, ask yourself the question, have I become a consumer of everything and I just have all these ideas and I’m not really implementing anything? Or am I really going into it? Going, I’m looking for the one nugget that I’m actually going to put into practice, you know, what’s the old saying? A lot of people want to be a lion until it’s time to do lion shit, you know, or the other one everyone wants to eat, but nobody wants to hunt, you know, we won’t. You know, at some point you’re going to have to hunt and have that intent that, you know, I’m going to create some non negotiable standards of how I show up each day. And I think the intent to implement shows up on your calendar, too.

Tom Reber
You know, like, we do a lot of role plays in sales training stuff in the contractor fight. And our members that are winning the most, they don’t just like the idea of role playing, but they actually put them on their calendar, you know, because the things that you put on your calendar are important to you. You know, where you spend your time and where you spend your money always reveals the things that are most important to you. So I think you got to schedule the things that are important to you schedule your implementation, which is also why I think you got it back to being laser focused on exactly what you want, because you can’t implement everything at once.

Tom Reber
You know, and there’s a, I mean, earlier I shared, we came off our planning meeting in the fight and I had, what, 43 ideas or whatever in a week. And it’s not that we’re never going to do those things. It’s just we made the commitment to implement on these things. And so these best ideas over here, they go to not yet. You know, there’s, it’s like you don’t want to paint the walls before you frame the house. Right. And I think a lot of people are implementing things in the wrong order.

Logan Shinholser
So you’re essentially taking those ideas and putting them, like, in the parking lot of a. It’s not like we’re shooting this outside next to the bar and it’s really we’re just placing next to the bar and to then figure out later down the line, do we got to shoot this thing or not?

Tom Reber
Yeah. And, you know, when I plan my week, you know, like you, I have a lot of options on how I can spend my time. And so when I sit down on Sundays and I plan my week, one of the questions I ask is if I can only accomplish one thing this week, what would that one thing be, you know, and this week it was, you know, back to the YouTube thing and our content. It was that I will have done x, y and z research around certain things on topics and thumbnails and all this other stuff. It was all research based that if I did nothing else for work all week, if I had accomplished this, it would be a win. And I think that also helps really dial in how we spend our time and what we implement.

Logan Shinholser
Talk to me a bit about the impact that you have seen in either your business or with you personally when you’re essentially saying, look, theme of the week is to do this one thing, and if all else fails, if I hit this, I’m good. Like, what kind of impact does that do for you or for the contractor fight?

Tom Reber
Well, I think it starts with having a, you know, you got to have a strategic plan of where you want to go. So let’s just talk business. Speak here you have a quarterly plan, and in that quarterly plan, you’ve identified the milestones that you want to hit, and then you reverse engineer your actions throughout the quarter to get there. And so I think when. When somebody is really intent on that. So, for example, gosh, is close to 20 years ago now, probably 18 years ago, we realized in our painting company that gross profit was the number one issue that was keeping us poor. Like, our gross profit just wasn’t high enough. So we said no to anything that didn’t help support and raise our gross profit.

Tom Reber
And within a year, we raised it from, what, 33, 32, 33% to over 50% gross profit and had a ton more money in the bank, had a happier culture. It unified the team. And so I could give examples all day about when somebody chooses to go all in, and that comes back again to identifying the real problem in the business. I spoke to a kid earlier today. He was 26 years old. He’s got a remodeling business down in Houston. Great guy. Working his tail off. And we dug a little bit and found that the real problem, again, not surprising, because it is with so many contractors, is he just simply didn’t know his numbers. You know? And when you don’t know your numbers, you don’t have confidence in your pricing. You get tossed around by clients all the time, and you second guess yourself.

Tom Reber
So I said, dude, what would happen if we just fixed this one thing? So, listen, for the next 30 days, this is the only thing you need to concern yourself with.

Logan Shinholser
And in your opinion, why is that? Because to me, it’s like, why are people overweight? It’s not like they don’t know, at least for the most part. They don’t know that if you can, you know, they do. I’m sorry. They do know that if you consume more calories, then you actually burn off. You’re going to gain the weight, but they’re still overweight. So when it comes to not knowing your numbers, what is the core reason in your mind?

Tom Reber
Well, it’s funny. I found that the number one thing that wakes somebody up to finally choose to see that their numbers are important is when they start job costing, when you really start, you know, looking at the game film, at the project that you just did and all the work you put into it and all the effort and emotional toil and, you know, navigating issues with the client and the crew and the weather and all these things, and then you see what you have left. That’s a hell of a motivator. So I think so many contractors still think it’s all about the work and the craftsmanship. They think that’s the number one important thing. Of course that’s important, right? And people, you know, I preach, oops, sorry, I’m banging my lights around, I preach 50% gross profit, so much.

Tom Reber
And all these other things that we, that are kind of our rallying call right in the fight to plant our flag on, people will misunderstand that. I don’t think craftsmanship is important, but the minute you become a business owner, you know, that’s not the most important role you have anymore. Your number one role is to be a profitable company that could be around for however long you want it to be around, to create a great future for yourself, your employees, your vendors, your industry partners, your clients. That becomes the number one thing of importance. So I just think they’re misguided in their priorities. If I just, and I see this a lot where if we talk about low profit, so I’ll just stick with that. When a contractor sees that they have low profit, they often immediately go to one of two things.

Tom Reber
They immediately go to, I gotta fix our quality or I gotta make my clients happy. When actually the very first step, if you’re going to do things in the right order, is you got to look in the mirror and go, where am I failing as a leader? Then from there, how is that impacting my culture and the type of culture that I want to have intentionally? And then from there it goes. The next step in the process is employee satisfaction. Success is an inside out game, and so many times we try to fix things that are outside of that framework that we provide.

Logan Shinholser
So it sounds like what you’re talking about is kind of going back to identifying the problem. Very. At the beginning of this podcast, which is more about keep asking those whys. And that’s very similar. It sounds like if you’re having issues, start with you and you work your way down and go, am I the one that’s off? Maybe I am to these certain extents and let me kind of like trickle down from there. Am I off on that?

Tom Reber
No, not at all. I mean, I’m thinking of a guy I coached several years ago, that with great intention, he bought into the automation world a little too much in his business and he overcomplicated everything. If you’re looking at a disk profile, he’s off the charts high c, right? So he’s the type of guy that you certainly want launching a space shuttle when it comes to somebody scheduling a call with his company. You know, when we kind of dug into this, we realized he was the problem. He overcomplicated everything. You know, one of our values here in the fight is simplify. Are we doing this in the most simple way that it can be done?

Tom Reber
And sometimes, dude, innovation, you know, where I start is once we identify a problem that has to be fixed, you know, I ask, you know, if weren’t allowed to have to bring in any other resources than what we have currently today, how would we fix this issue? And I think oftentimes you’ll find that it’s right under your nose.

Logan Shinholser
I talked tom about his own health journey and how business owners need to treat their bodies the same way that a professional athlete treats their body.

Tom Reber
Yeah, I really wish I could cite where I saw this, but I read an article years ago, a couple years ago now, maybe in Forbes or entrepreneur or something like that the physical toll on a CEO is similar to that of a professional athlete. Okay? Obviously, we’re not out there getting run into by 300 pound guys and stuff, but the emotional toll, the mental toll, the mental fatigue, all these different things. And like I said earlier, I, you know, I believe success is an inside out game. If you drop a rock in the water where the rock hits, we call that get oxygen strong. You, you be strong. You know, the sleep, the health, all that stuff.

Tom Reber
The next ring that, that rock produces outside of you, a strong you is a strong home, you know, because you bring you and you bring home with you wherever you go. And that will never change. And then from there, it’s a fat wallet. Okay? Build your business, build your empire. And oftentimes we flip that and we give everything we have to the business and everything else gets our scraps, and that’s just not sustainable. And I’ve done it the wrong way. And, and, you know, like you said, after, over the last couple, three years, now, that’s a non negotiable. In fact, I was sharing with our battleground group and one of our members today, Mira, she said, tom, you said something a while ago, that exercise is part of your work day.

Tom Reber
And she said, I’ve implemented that and now I’m in better shape and I’m making. She went from doing 60 grand in 2022 as a handy woman business. And this past February of 2023, she jumped into the community. And as of today, she’s done over 325 grand. And she’s more than, you know, paid herself an additional $100,000 a year to date simply by making a couple of those shifts to take care of herself first.

Logan Shinholser
I love it. Yeah. I have a client that we talked about just the idea of health, but also of like, when we talked about reading and listening to podcasts where he was like, I used to be very uncomfortable coming to work and actually reading because I felt like I should be doing something. But he’s like, now I recognize that me stopping and reading a business book is going to benefit the company. So it’s actually part of the work day now.

Logan Shinholser
And I’ve gotten to the point where I’m now comfortable actually showing up to the office where everybody else is there working around me doing the day to day of what they got to do, and me just sitting there and kind of having my own time to sit and think and really just, you know, do like the big picture ten x stuff instead of just focusing on the let’s stay busy two x stuff. So it seems like there’s a lot of overlap there. Yeah.

Tom Reber
I mean, if you think about it, you know, what’s the saying? How you do one things, how you do everything. If you can’t honor the commitments you’re making to yourself to go for a walk and eat, right? And some of those things. I’m not talking about being a bodybuilder here, you guys. I’m talking about just doing the best you can, you know, what’s. What’s that look like? If you can’t do that, what makes you think you could do that? Honor the commitments you’re going to make to your employees and your customers and stuff, because everything’s related. Everything’s connected.

Logan Shinholser
Do you think employees notice, like, if you are not even honoring the stuff that you’re supposed to do for yourself, do you think employees see that manifest in your leadership as a business owner?

Tom Reber
100%, yeah, I, you know, everyone wants to know how to attract more winners to their company and keep a team of winners together and all that. Well, you got to be one, right? Be what you want. And a lot of owners, for whatever reason, they’re not consistent in their own life and with the things in their own priorities. And that sends a message to everybody. And I think there’s safety in that consistency for your team when they know. I mean, shoot, you brought up reading with that other dude, right? I mean, what is it Warren Buffett read 6 hours a day or something like that? You know? I mean, you know, whatever. I mean, obviously an extreme example, but you’re going to tell me the people in the organization don’t trust him because of how consistent he’s been with that.

Tom Reber
He’s like, this is how we do things here, you know? But you know, when you’re consistent or not consistent, it sends a message, you know, to the team. And, you know, one of the greatest needs that we can meet as a leader of an organization is, was, is security. People want to know that they’re hitching their wagon to somebody that’s secure, is clear on where they’re going, they’re dependable. And if you’re not modeling some of the most basic things, like getting up on time and, you know, taking care of yourself and. Or putting your family first and stuff, how are they going to trust you with anything else?

Logan Shinholser
Can you talk a little bit more about the idea of, like, employees wanting security? Because I feel like you went through that relatively quickly, but that is such a big component that we, as business owners, we tend to, or at least for me, I tend to forget a lot of times where I’m like, hey, we’re going to the moon, guys. And in reality, they’re just like, hey, I just want to make sure I got my job when we’re going to the moon. So can you talk more about the employee and security side of things?

Tom Reber
Yeah. There was a study done a number of years ago where they identified, like, five of the most common fears that all people have, and our employees fall into the people category. And one was the fear of death. Not just physical death, but career death and, you know, relational death and those types of things. So the fear of death creates a need for security, and there’s ways as leaders that we can help meet those needs. The second big one was the fear of the outsider, which creates the need to build community in your organization. The third is the fear of an unclear future, which obviously creates the need of having clarity. And the next one was the fear of chaos. I mean, contractors, listen to this. I mean, ask your team. This would be a fun exercise to do at lunch. Ask your team.

Tom Reber
Hey, guys, where’s chaos showing up in our business? Well, that creates the need to create order. And then the final one is the fear of insignificance, which creates the need of being important. And we have control over all of those within our own little world. And, you know, the more you focus on meeting those needs of the people in your company, the more likely they’re going to go to war with you, and they’re going to stick with you through tough times because you’re truly going to feel loved and like you have their back.

Logan Shinholser
Tom is a speaker at the new era of contracting virtual summit. So I asked him, what does the new era of business innovation mean to him?

Tom Reber
You know, I’m excited you’re doing this, and here’s why I’m excited. You know, most things that get put on like this are kind of cookie cutter topics. Just props to you and the team over there. I think this is a topic that can go a lot of different ways, and I think it’s much needed because as we talked, sometimes innovation is going to be a new technology. Sometimes it’s going to be the words that we use. And so to me, this is really shedding light. The new era of business innovation is really shedding the light not only on all the future of AI and the technology and the automations we talked about, but shining a light. I think what’s much needed is back to the fundamentals that so many of us overlook because we think we’ve arrived in those.

Tom Reber
And so I’m excited to be a part of it. And I really appreciate you putting this thing on, man.

Logan Shinholser
I wanted to thank Tom for coming on the podcast and talking all about business innovation in the contracting space. If you want to learn more from Tom.com and other speakers, be sure to join our new era of contracting virtual summit on January 24 and 25th. Go ahead. Click the link in the description, check out what’s going on with the event, and we’ll see you there. Bye.