Identifying Your Ideal Client and Unique Selling Proposition

Aaron
Before we get into this week’s episode, if you haven’t listened to last Week’s episode number 466, that is laying out your entire marketing strategy and lays out all the six steps that we go through with our clients. Today, we are diving deeper into steps one and two. Your ideal client and your unique selling proposition. But if you haven’t already listened to that one before this, I would highly suggest you go back and get an idea for the whole picture of what we’re building here. And you need to understand today’s conversation because we’re going to be talking about who you should be targeting with your marketing, who your ideal client is, and what message you need to be getting out to them. Without that, all the other money that you spend on your marketing would potentially be wasted.

Aaron
So go check out that episode if you haven’t already. But if you have, then let’s go ahead and get started.

Logan
Everyone. Welcome back to the Contractor Growth Network podcast. I’m Logan Shinholser and I’m joined again today by Aaron Horner. And we’re talking all things about ideal client, avatar and unique selling proposition. So, Aaron, why before we hopped on this, you said this is your absolute favorite topic to talk about. Why is that?

Aaron
You can’t set me up like that.

Logan
Aaron didn’t actually say that, but he implied it by practically begging to be on this podcast. So when it comes down to the ICA and the USP, you know, on episode 466, which is the last one that we just went through, went through like the six different steps of marketing your remodeling business and went through all that. So if you haven’t listened to that one yet, make sure you check that one out. It’s a really good episode. We got a lot of great feedback on it already. But the first two steps are identifying your ideal client avatar and your unique selling proposition. So, Aaron, based off of just the last podcast that went through, you know, as it pertains to this strategy, what is in your mind, the importance of knowing these two pieces of information?

Aaron
Well, I mean, there’s an argument for this being the most important. I didn’t say this was I was most excited for it, but maybe I could have. I do think it’s probably the most important thing because without the foundation of this, everything else is a waste. So if you don’t have the right ideal client from the start, then all of your messaging is going to be off all the marketing dollars you spend. It doesn’t matter if you know how to run ads if you’re running them to the wrong people. So today is making sure you know who your people are and what you need to say to them.

Logan
So you have done a lot of. And when we say the word grand client, what we are referring to is a client’s client. So for us, that’s typically going to be a homeowner. So if we say, oh, were speaking to this grand client. Yeah, that would be one of our clients. Clients, yeah. So Aaron has, you know, as part of video and all this stuff, you’ve talked to basically at this point, hundreds of grand clients, meaning you’re directly having conversations with the homeowners that our clients are working with. And basically most of the clients we work with are in a very similar. They go after like, very similar demographic. It’s typically not like the top point 1% of people, but it’s gonna be in the top 5% of people as it pertains to income. And it’s usually gonna be around like a metro area.

Logan
And it’s usually like female driven as far as who’s making the decisions. And it’s, you know, usually there’s like family involved somehow, whether it’s they have young kids or they’re empty nesters and now they have like. So like the family component comes into it as well. What have you learned in like the journey of like just being able, like talking to these grand clients for like five, at this point, four or five years? I would say what has been like the journey of what you have seen as far as like your, I don’t know, clarity or revelation around learning more about what they go through?

Aaron
I mean, I think one of the things I learned a little bit early on, but still the most impactful thing is really understanding. I remember when I first started doing testimonials for people, I would ask a question like, hey, why’d you want your kitchen done? And they would give some generic answer like, well, we need more space. I’d be like, great, that sounds good. And I would stop at that. And it was conversations here and kind of diving in and learning more about the storytelling deeper that I realized, like, everybody has a reason beneath that. And once you get there’s. Even then it still typically falls into like maybe five or six buckets. In general, you’ll always have the oddballs, but the ones there are general stories that people have.

Aaron
And like, the reasons are we’re hosting people over for the holidays this year, so we need to have a bigger kitchen or we’re empty nesters. Now. And now we want to be able to have enough room to invite our kids and our grandkids in and everybody can get in. We want extended family gatherings, things like that. Or it’s like, hey, we just bought the house, and this is not what were hoping for, but we needed to. We really like the area. Or, you know, there’s also, like, we really wanted this kitchen fixed up. And it was important to us because we love the area. We love having people over. We have. I mean, there was one guy, he talked about having.

Aaron
I think he had, like, beer night with all the dudes and that kind of stuff where there’s the other person that had cigar, you know, stuff with the neighborhood. And it’s like, we love our community. We need more space, but we can’t afford to move. So realizing that every single person has their own motivations and deeper levels of why they’re wanting the project done.

Logan
Yeah, I know, like, for the addition that, like, my wife and I are, like, talking about is like, it started off with just, like, we need a place to put the desk because we have another kid come in and we need extra space. And then it turned into, like, well, if we had a fireplace, this is where we’re going to do Christmas. Like, you know, because we don’t have a working fireplace right now. So it just. It expands, and then, like, the emotional investment gets bought in a lot more. So it’s then, like, harder to turn around and go, well, maybe we just get enough space for a desk and that’s it. And it’s actually like, well, maybe if we’re going to do it, let’s do it right, and then it’s game on.

Aaron
Well, yeah, because it’s like, if you’re ever doing testimonials or if you have a videographer doing testimonials, one of the questions I started asking that made that really open up to me was I started saying, like, this is an expensive project. There’s a lot of reasons not to get it done. So why did you do it anyways? Like, this is a hard process. It’s really expensive. But what made it worth it for you? And so those things like, you’re talking about, like, once you start visualizing, like, well, we could use the fireplace at Christmas, all of a sudden the thing becomes real and becomes worth the money. So everybody has those regions.

Logan
And we’re gonna talk about today is, like, how to identify your ideal client, but also, like, some just, like, best practices around, really how it all works. And, like, just to Kind of kick it off. Like, the biggest first thing that I can say is like, the first thing is the idea of like, especially if you’re like newer is this idea of stacking. So what I mean by that is we have talked to enough people that come in and they’re brand new in business and they’re like, I only want to work with this perfect client. They don’t care about budget, they don’t care about timelines. Like, they’re just like, it’s like everybody’s dream client. But unfortunately that contracting company or remodeler has no background that person’s really going to buy into. So it’s just being realistic with who you’re able to serve.

Logan
Because I mean like, you know, even talking to Nick Schiffer who owns NS Builders, we had him on a podcast, you know, a couple years ago and he was talking about like, because I was like, do you, did you always do just like really expensive, really high end homes? He was like, no. I start off like, I just took photos of like I put like a floating shelf and just like made that look beautiful. And people would just assume that I did the rest of it. And like, as time goes on, it just, it gets better and better. But like, a lot of people want to jump in and go, I only want to work with the best.

Logan
But because there’s no history or background or really like the skill set that the contracting company has, maybe they physically can do it, but from a process and client experience perspective, they just haven’t achieved that level that aligns with what their perfect, you know, client looks. For a contracting company, like, there’s just a misalignment. So it really just comes down to at first, like, I’m all for like, hey, kind of take what you can get, you know, be smart about it. But like, if you just start off going, I’m only taking the best of the best projects and that’s it, like, that’s okay. But then you’re going to need a lot of money for marketing or you’re going to need a way to float yourself for a while, which you can do.

Logan
But just recognizing that, like having that portfolio, having that background and all that stuff, like it just takes time to be able to stack clients. And ultimately the whole goal here is that you work with somebody that you really like and then you just continuously, you know, you then take that project that you did, nail it for them, create like a little case study around it, market it, and then you get Somebody else who goes, well, if you did really well on this floating shelf, well, now I want you to have a whole entertainment center. The whole entertainment center turns into. Well, if you can do an entertainment center, you must be good at carpentry. Like, let me have you do the cabinets. And if you can do the cabinets in the kitchen, then.

Logan
So it just kind of, like, sticks and moves like that. So just making sure that the. We’re just being realistic with where we are in business, because a lot of this is just stopping and going. Is what we’re offering good enough? Because, like, basically the other person needs to feel like they’re getting a good deal to want, like, move forward. When I say deal, I mean, like, whatever they’re buying from you is, like, beneficial. So the stacking principle is, like, a huge first one that I just want to kind of put out there. Because if you’re not working with your ideal clients, like, it may just be that you’re telling the wrong story and, like, you’re actually doing all the things. And, like, there’s a whole level of just, like, how to articulate it and put it in a cohesive way.

Logan
But there’s also the reality of, like, you may not be doing the things that they want you to do anyway, and, like, they’re not going to pick you, even if you said, you’re my favorite client. And we’ve. We’ve experienced that at CGN a lot where it’s like, we want to work with, you know, only these types of people. But, you know, a few years ago, like, and I look back on it, I’m like, of course they didn’t work with us. Like, weren’t ready. We weren’t ready. Like, you know, and, like. And at the time, I was frustrated, but now I’m like, well, I don’t blame them at all. So that’s really what it came down to.

Aaron
Okay, so you’re saying, like, when it comes to, like. I mean, the first step of the process is picking your ideal client, but.

Logan
You’Re saying this is like a caveat or like a disclaimer before we even get to it. Because it’s. Because I think I’ve worked with enough or I’ve talked to enough people that are like, you know, I know my worth, I know my value. I only want to charge really, you know, good rates, but only work with the best people. And I’m like, dude, you’re using a Gmail to reach out to me right now. Yeah, not that you know, having a Gmail versus, like, a company email is like, the make or break thing, but, like, all those. Yeah, all those little things stack up.

Aaron
Okay, So, I mean, that’s a. Because right there. I mean, as I’m sitting here, there’s two different directions to go. Because, like, the Nick Schiffer story you were telling, like, I mean, in a sense, his ideal client was always, like, one step above where he was.

Aaron
And so for people listening to this now, how do they find that balance? How would you suggest finding that between where they’re actually, what kind of clients they’re getting and what they want? Like, should they establish that their ideal client is the people they’re currently working with, or should it be those aspirational. You’re saying it should be the ones.

Logan
Well, if the people that you like. The way that we do this with clients is we. Or prospects, when we first start working with them in our sales calls, we go, look, who’s your favorite client you’ve ever worked with? And it doesn’t have to be necessarily that they came to them online. They could be a referral, which is perfect. But basically, we want to make sure that whatever the, like, the favorite client is that they work with, if that’s something that they would love to replicate or duplicate over and over, meaning they like the area that the person lives in, they like the service that they provided for them, and then they actually like the person. That’s a good starting point.

Logan
So what we don’t want to do here is when you’re thinking about, like, your ideal client and you’re like, well, I absolutely loved working with Aaron and Aaron’s wife, Tori. So. But the issue is that I want to do full kitchen renovation, and all I did for them, because it was years ago, was I just did some drywall work.

Aaron
Yeah, it needs to be a combination of the person and the work completely.

Logan
It needs to be, like, the things that, like, you’re actually striving towards. So, like. Because we get this question every so often of, like, well, like, what services should I go after? Like, I don’t really care. Like, I just. Whatever’s the most profitable and the easiest. And I’m like, you got. I mean, in my mind, and maybe I’m just biased, but, like, I don’t. I don’t love working with people that are just like, well, whatever is going to make the most amount of money, because then it just.

Aaron
It.

Logan
At some point, like, as a emotional person myself, I have to feel, like, a certain level of, like, passion towards like, what I am doing at work. Yeah, I know. You’re the same way where like you talk about with like what you were doing content wise and you were like, I just don’t love it because I’m like. And I know that I don’t love it because I’m not going home and showing Tori, like, what I’m working on anymore. Which was like, cool to hear. But like, that’s a level of that as well, is like making sure that whatever services or areas that you want to, you know, work in, that also aligns with like the passion of like, what you want to do. Because it’s, you know, I’ve been doing this now for eight years. It’s.

Logan
There’s a lot of highs and a lot of lows and it’s much easier to keep your head in the game when it’s something that you like doing versus, like, well, it’s just for like the paycheck. So it has to align with if it’s a service in an area that you deem to be one that you want to work in, and then you also have a client that you absolutely love that works in that area that you’ve already done work for, that is like the best starting point is to just identify that individual person and go, okay, is this person a needle in a haystack? Meaning.

Logan
Are they the only person that will align with this exact scenario? And I’ll never be able to replicate what we did for them for anybody else. And if that is the case, then that would not be a good example of somebody. But usually that does not happen.

Aaron
How would, how would somebody know that?

Logan
It is like a weird one off.

Aaron
Okay.

Logan
And it’s very rare that anybody says yes. And here’s why. Like, I can’t even think of an example. But you basically, like, okay, here’s like an example would just be like my favorite client that I ever worked with that I would love to replicate is my grandmother.

Aaron
Sure. Like, the relationship isn’t replicable.

Logan
You can’t replicate that because, like, okay, great. Unless you’re then going to have 34 years of experience with a client where they watched you grow up. Like, that’s not. That’s not a good person. So like, you just want to make sure that it’s like repeatable or it’s not like this weird one off scenario. Again, like, you kind of have to go out of your way to find that. You just want to make sure that whoever you’re picking, it’s. They are similar enough to other people. In your market. And the other side could also be like, if you did this really expensive project in nowhere, Missouri. I’m sorry to the Missouri people listening to this, but like, well, it’s nowhere in Missouri.

Aaron
Not just Missouri.

Logan
It’s nowhere. Yeah, it’s like the Siberia of Missouri. And one really wealthy person moved out there and said, I want a 30,000 square foot home with that. It’s gotta be like a Los Angeles home. And nobody else in the area has even remotely close to that amount of money. That would be another scenario. That’s like a needle in a haystack. Okay. So that’s the only thing that you just want to avoid. Otherwise, it’s typically like if you pick out, like, you know who that person is and there’s like, okay, there’s enough people that are. We feel that are similar to this in this market that would also do this.

Logan
Then you’re good.

Aaron
Okay.

Logan
That’s the idea.

Aaron
Okay. So we pick out that person and you think of who it is. I know you did a workshop in a few different presentations on this. What questions do people need to be asking about that to get the most information from that person?

Logan
So the best thing here is the better that you are at sales and understand the emotion behind why somebody is doing something, the easier this stuff is going to be.

Aaron
Okay.

Logan
So when you first, if somebody goes, hey, I need to get. I want to remodel my kitchen. And you just go, why? And they go, I want more storage. Like what you were talking about. And you’re like, perfect. That makes sense. I can come out there and we’ll talk storage only. Like, there needs to be a deeper emotional level there. So to be able to, like, dig deep into that. So the best place to really start with this stuff is first, like, if you’re the one that you identify that ideal client. If you’re the one that sold them, you then that works. But if a salesperson sold it to them or somebody else was like the one that really built the relationship with them at the beginning, get their insight. That’s who we also want to be able to talk to.

Logan
Because basically a big part of this is we want to know what was a straw that broke the camel’s back with this person. So, for example, if your favorite client is, let’s say, you know, it’s landscaping. Easy example. It’s landscaping. And somebody, I don’t know installed a bunch of, like, planting beds.

Logan
Well, the reason they installed planting beds was they were about to have a fourth of July party And they wanted their house to look beautiful. So if that was a straw that broke the camel’s back, we then can’t get frustrated that it’s, you know, January 1st and that ideal client’s not calling us because the situation that brought them to call us in the first place is not even here yet.

Logan
So there’s elements of that of just like, we want to be able to replicate, you know, on the front end, what was the process that they went through? So by asking the salesperson or doing it yourself and just saying, okay, who was it? What was this scenario they were dealing with? And the first piece was like, first off, how did they find you? And what did they do to build trust with you? So the how did they find you? Is a really important one, because if it was, they went online, they went to Google, they read a bunch of our reviews, and they absolutely loved it.

Logan
Well, that’s a really impactful piece because now we know, okay, if we can then get everybody to go online and then read our reviews, and that’s going to be a really strong way to also get them to go through the process of, like, reaching out to us as well. Or that also tells you if they’re reading a bunch of reviews, first off, they trust the masses of, like, people that are, like, in our area as well, but they also want to read the individual stories associated with it to hear from people that, you know, they potentially could trust that, okay, this does seem like a credible company to go with. Sure. So being able to replicate the process that they went through and then the trust piece, which comes down to what was the sales process like with them? Why did they like you?

Logan
Were they going, you know, were you one of three companies or was it just you? Elements like that. So the more that you can, like, dive deep into how the actual specific process worked for them to first find you, then build up enough trust for them to start to swap money with you, that’s super important.

Aaron
Swap money with you.

Logan
Yeah, like, yeah, but like, you know, yeah, people value, like, you. They talk about, like, what somebody, if you look at their calendar and their credit card statement, like, you can tell what they value in life. Like, that’s what we want to do here. Just understand that stuff. So, like, the more that we can actually replicate the process or at least understand it up front to then be able to replicate it. Super important.

Aaron
Okay, so, like, important questions to like, ask either the salesperson who sold this client or the client themselves is asking about, like, what things were you Specifically looking for in a contractor, what values were important to you when you’re. What were your main concerns? What were your fears? Things like that.

Logan
Yeah, it’s first starting off with kind of back to that, like fourth of July or like the emotional example stuff of like, why do they get it done in the first place? So understanding that piece of. Are they the empty nesters that now it’s just time and they have enough money saved up? Is it. They have a growing family or what does that look like? So you have your favorite client, then you understand why they’re doing what they’re doing. And then we want to understand the process to which they’re getting to how they’re spending money with you. Yeah, so that’s the first big piece. And I will say, like the other, like, pro tip around this stuff that I can tell you is the more that you’re able to hang out with that client or that type of client, the easier this stuff becomes.

Logan
I am very fortunate that, like, my dad was a contractor. Like, so I grew up in that environment. So, you know, I’ve never owned a contracting company, but it was easier for me out of the gate to be able to like, hop on a call with somebody and talk to them about like, their problems or their concerns or what’s going on around it.

Aaron
So long.

Logan
I’ve been around it for so long. Like, I knew, like, if they said, yeah, like, I’ve got a good crew, but like, I got this one guy that’s awesome, but he’s only awesome when he’s there. And I knew exactly what that was because I could like, call out from my dad’s company. Like, a few people that I’m like, oh, you know, I used to work in the field. Like, they were awesome. But like, I remember the emotion of what it was like when that person would call out and you’re just like, great, now we’re all going to work, like a much longer day.

Logan
Or if they were like somebody that like, did something special or like they had like, certain craftsmanship around it, like, so it was easier for me because I could actually sit down and like, understand more about their scenario to a certain extent compared to the other marketing company out there, that just goes, well, you know, we work in home improvement, but they’ve never really been around it. You know, they’ve been to Lowe’s a few times, but, like, that’s about it. So, yeah, it was a very different scenario. So the more that you’re able to hang out with your ideal types of clients, the easier all this stuff becomes because it becomes a whole level of, like, you can empathize with them.

Logan
And, like, if I now had to sell to somebody that’s got a wife and, you know, a couple kids, and they’re, you know, in their early 30s, again, it’s much easier for me because I know the stage at life that they’re in. So I can be like, hey, you know what it’s like when you come home and it’s like, it’s game on still. Like, it’s not like you have to go home and relax or keep working, but, like, you need to be really efficient with your time because you got a wife and kids that need you. It becomes then much easier to, like, talk about that because I can. Like, I’m in their shoes right now.

Aaron
Okay. Okay. So establishing who this person is, I think for some people, that would be very easy to, like, go through and be like, you know, I already have the person picked out. For others, they might think, well, I have quite a few people that are my favorite clients, or maybe I don’t want to limit myself. And we talked about this a little bit in the last episode.

Logan
Multiple.

Logan
I would say the first piece to go off of there is, like, look at who spent the most amount of money with you. Like, that’s a good place to start. It’s like an easy default where, like, you can just, like, start, like, filter by, like, you know, obviously, if they spent a bunch of money but, like, you lost money on the project, like, sure, that may not be the best.

Aaron
Fit, but, like, profitability of the services.

Logan
Yeah. I mean, like, the goal here is to, like, grow the business, you know, by working with clients that you like working with. Like, that’s the ultimate win, where, like, they’re happy, you’re happy, they get what they want, you get what you want. So being able to, like, look at, like, the finance side of things, of, like, who has spent the most amount of money with me is, like, it’s a good start to just understand, okay, what do we do here? And we, you know, we did this with CGN a couple of years ago. We ranked, you know, every client by how much they’ve spent with us, and we started to see patterns. We started to see, okay, this wasn’t. These weren’t people that just started a contracting company and they reached out.

Logan
These are people that were in business for at least 10 years at this point. Yeah, they’d been through one recession. They had, you know, a team behind them. So basically, by Being able to, like, kind of go in order, it started to allow us to see patterns and trends as far as, like, the types of clients that we. That will spend the most amount of money with us. But it even showed, okay, we’ve actually done these exact types of services for all of these clients. Is it coincidental that they’ve also spent the most amount of money with us? Yes or no? So that’s a good way to do it of just, like, being able to, like, look and see are there patterns, you know, in your world? You know, it’s going to be geographically, like, you have certain neighborhoods.

Logan
Do you have certain areas of town that do really well in. We talked about this last time with, like, Premier Ponds with my dad’s old company, where, like, we thought the people with the money were going to be the best clients to go after.

Aaron
Oh, yeah.

Logan
But when we actually looked at, like, QuickBooks, we saw that people that spend the most amount of money consistently were actually a completely different town with a completely different mindset that was more of like the millionaire next door who just saves up and they know exactly what they want.

Aaron
Yeah, they had a different style than the other people.

Logan
Yeah, they were. And it was ironic because it was like they had saved up so long that this was a really, you know, this was a big chunk of change for them. But because they’d saved up, they knew exactly what they wanted. Compared to somebody that’s almost like a little bit like on a whim, then it’s all over the place. So, yeah, you know, that was a big thing here. So just being able to look at your number, at the numbers, see if there are patterns or trends here. If you have enough data around it, you could probably even upload this stuff to, like, a chat CBT and just say, hey, are there trends here based off of address, based off of project type, based off of, you know, if you even have it where it’s like the age of the client.

Logan
Like, I don’t think anybody tracks that necessarily. But, like, you know, you would be able to see some of that stuff if you sat down for a little bit and go, okay, what are the overall patterns here?

Aaron
Yeah, I mean, ChatGPT is interesting because I know we’ve talked about doing that with your reviews, going through and exporting your reviews and having ChatGPT analyze them to see, like, what your ideal clients love the most about you and things like that. Is that still part of the same thing or is that something different? Like, would you recommend doing that? As part of finding your ideal client.

Logan
I wouldn’t do that. As far as your ideal client, that will come in, like, the unique selling and unique value proposition parts of being able to analyze what are people saying about you that they specifically liked. But so far, this is simply just how to identify the type of person that you want to work more with because it aligns with your values and their values.

Aaron
I see. Because ChatGPT is going to read the reviews and it’s going to pull out all the things about you that resonate with them, but it doesn’t have nearly as much information about it. Can’t go into the person’s Google account and then say, like, this is what they enjoy doing.

Logan
No, at this point, it’s not. Like, unless, like, all your reviews are like, hey, I was dealing with this. And then I asked my neighbor who also worked with us, like, unless they had that level of detail, most people in their reviews are simply just going to talk about that. Now you could do it where you upload all your call transcripts and then that way on your conversations. Yeah, you’re able to do that. I mean, we do that a lot with, like, I now have it with every Ashley and I have it with every prospect that we talk to. They have their own individual chat within ChatGPT. And then that way it starts to compile information around them. So as we continue to like the relationship, we’re then able to also send that off to people on the team.

Logan
So they’re able to hear, like, from the very first call that Aaron called me and said, hey, this is my problem. They now know where they’re coming in from. So you could do that with, like, hey, start to analyze this stuff. But you would still have to identify, like, who your favorite clients are. Because, like, just because everybody says, hey, I need to remodel my kitchen because the storage is not enough. Yeah, Your favorite clients could all be storage because they have young families and they have appliances all over the place. While somebody else could say, well, I don’t have enough storage for all my vintage wine.

Logan
And that’s a very different person coming in.

Aaron
Okay, okay.

Logan
So you could do it that way. But I would say for right now, the chatbot stuff will come in later. We’ll do that at the end of this. The next piece here is once you identify who that person is. This will also very much piggyback into the unique selling proposition stuff. But, like, walking through step by step of what the process of working with you was like, and the things that they really enjoyed and appreciated about it. There’s a really good book called Switch by Dan and Chip Heath. I’ve read it multiple times. It is awesome. And basically, it talks about the idea of bright spots. And, like, I think their overall mantra is what looks like resistance is often just a lack of clarity.

Logan
And what that means here is that.

Aaron
Because just for my clarity and for people who may be somewhat familiar, this is the book that talks about basically the motivation for doing things. And there’s the elephant, the rider, and the path.

Logan
Yep. And we’re talking about that.

Aaron
Okay.

Logan
Yep. So basically, like, with the mantra of, like, what looks like resistance is often just a lack of clarity, is that people are not moving the direction that you’re going in, not because they just, like, are saying no. It’s usually like they don’t have enough information or they don’t have enough clarity around what it is that you’re doing for them.

Logan
And a lot of this is if they have enough clarity and they still say no, well, at least you know that they knew everything. But basically the principle in the book is how to flip that, how to get that clarity around it. And they have this analogy of there’s a guy that is on top of an elephant walking. And if you’re on top of an elephant, Aaron, how much do you weigh?

Aaron
I’m like 140.

Logan
What does an elephant weigh?

Aaron
Two ton. I don’t.

Logan
It’s a lot. I don’t know. Hoping you knew that one. So an elephant weighs a lot. And basically, if the elephant wants to go left, it’s going to go left no matter how much you say, please go to the right. And the idea is that, Aaron, the person on top is logic. So logic may say, hey, to the left, you can’t see an elephant, but there’s a cliff over there. Don’t walk over there. But if the elephant which represents emotion is going to the left, it’s going to go to the left no matter what.

Aaron
It’s like the person can do some sort of guiding. They can turn, but they can’t fight long.

Logan
Logic is going to. It’s like in sales, they talk about, like, emotion sells. Logic backs it up. Same idea.

Logan
Now, there’s a third piece of this which is called the path. And basically what the path looks like is if, you know, if the elephant. If you want to go to the right and the elephant wants to go to the left, you’re going to go to the left. But if you’re in a dense jungle, and there’s a bunch of trees to the left, but there’s a clear cut pathway to the right. The elephant has no choice but to go to the right.

Logan
So basically it talks about what is most impactful here. Is it the logic, is it the emotion, or is it the actual shaping of the path? And usually that’s where that clarity piece comes in, where it’s not that the elephant didn’t want to go to the right because it just hates walking to the right. It’s just that it didn’t know what else to do and it just went that direction versus if you shape the path and say the only direction that you can go is right, it will go to the right. Okay, so that is when we talk about this stuff as it pertains to the ideal client and the unique selling proposition, it is understanding that the pathway that we’re taking clients down and prospects down is super important.

Logan
But to do that, what we need to do is we need to create a lot of clarity for the client. So what that looks like is we want to proactively understand what are the things that they’re going to like and enjoy about working with us. And the easiest way to do that is to look at your favorite client and actually identify what were the elements during the process of working together that they actively liked and appreciated. So then that way, now that we’ve identified them and they’re called bright spots, we can now take that to the next client and go, hey, you know, typically clients like you, they really, they kind of know what they want. They have Pinterest boards, they watch Architectural Digest, but they usually need somebody else to kind of pull it together.

Logan
And that could be an interior designer or an in house designer or an architectural designer. Does that sound like you? And if that is you’re going to go, yes. But if the last client that you worked with, you know, you didn’t stop and identify, oh, they love design and this next person is very similar to the last person, then you wouldn’t know to stop and bring up design.

Aaron
I see. So it’s like it’s taking all the things. Like the bright spots would be the things that they found most impactful for them or the things that they were like, I wasn’t even, I didn’t even know this going into it possibly. But afterwards, the things that were most valuable to me were this and then saying like, okay, well that’s something. I’m going to hold on to that. So now I know for future people, that’s something to, to market?

Logan
Basically, yeah, like there’s a guy I’m talking to right now out in la, really high end remodeling company. And were like looking through his website and we’re talking about his process. And basically like, I was like, look, I think the current marketing company you’re working with, I think they understand marketing. I don’t think they understand your industry or your process.

Aaron
Sure.

Logan
And he was like, well, how do you know that? And I was like, well, just basically like how you work through the website right now. Does it make sense? I was like, we just talked a lot about design. Where could I see your designs on this site? And he’s like, he kind of chuckled. He’s like, not on, like you can’t see any of them. And I’m like, okay, so like what you’re saying is the thing that people absolutely love about working with you is design, but it’s not. We can’t see it. Like, yeah, that’s a lapse in understanding the process that we need to take people through. So when it comes down to the bright spots, pieces, that is where we then need to identify. Okay, let’s walk through step by step.

Logan
And when we talk about a bright spot, what the natural human tendency to do here is to put our own bright spots into it.

Aaron
These are the parts I really like.

Logan
These are the parts that I value that I like that maybe the client also likes that. But like, you know, a lot of times it’s people’s like, they like use their tagline as like what people like. And they’re like, you know, they like that we’re on time, on budget. And I’m like, that’s great. But like, are they actually telling you that?

Aaron
Well, I mean, that might. That’s kind of the source of the problem is you think they’re looking for this. And so that’s what you’re saying, but it’s like, well, no, that idea is coming from you, not from them.

Logan
Yes. So yes. So that’s where you want to stop and go, okay, let’s walk step by step. And the way that we typically do it is there’s like five overall parts. It’s first. How do they find you? Like when they became a lead, was there anything that was like bright about that? They said, hey, I’m reaching out. I actually know three different people that have worked with you and they’ve all said that you have really good communication. So the first part is just identifying when they first became a lead. Was there anything that happened kind of before they first reached out to you. That was something that they brought up.

Logan
And that’s like a good rule of thumb when it comes to bright spot is like, are there specific things that they brought out that they appreciate or they like the second piece is in that initial discovery or initial call where you worked with them. Again, were there specific things that they brought up that they really enjoyed or appreciated? Do they like that you came out to the house and that you put on like booties over your shoes? Like small things like that?

Logan
Did they make any comments about things that they appreciated? Like I can tell you, when we had a designer come out to our house, like my wife really appreciated that the designer was dressed up and looked fashionable. That then becomes like, if we knew that, then that becomes something that’s like, okay, this is beneficial for the remodeling company to know that they like when somebody is fashionable and up to date.

Aaron
Yeah, okay. Yeah. I mean like when you’re doing testimonials, that stuff will just kind of like come out of people. Like when you’re asking about their experience though, a lot of times they will just go into like real specific details about little things that they noticed.

Logan
Like, and it’s funny because, like, if you’re not thinking about how to then use them, it just feels like they’re just nervous on camera and like, why would they comment on like the designer’s like, appearance and how they like were dressed nicely?

Aaron
But you then it’s something that stuck out to them enough that once, you know, maybe you’re even months past it at this point that the project’s all done and you’re getting a testimonial as soon as they think back to it, that’s one of the things that stands out to them. Like, that’s a memory that was important to them.

Logan
Which is big because then you just, you know how to then use it is you don’t want to then put on the website that designer wearing like an oversized company T shirt that’s ratty because it’s like that’s a big part. So it’s those elements that build up. So you go from initial, like before they became a lead, and then the second part, just as a high level overview. And you can break this down as much detail as you want step by step. But just from a high level overview, then it goes in like the discovery, then it goes into the design or pre construction slash planning. So were there things around the design process if you do design. If you don’t do design, was there anything around, like, the actual process of getting the project?

Logan
So once you get past, like, that discovery phase or the initial conversation phase, once you understand what their problem is, to then come up with your plan before the actual project starts, that would be like that next phase. So what bright spots happened during that? Were there specific things where they got to see their design and you actually showed them, like a 3D walkthrough? You know, some people, I’ve seen people now do, like, virtual reality, where they can walk them through that. Like, things like that. Like, and again, you may be a nerd for virtual reality, and that may be cool to you, but if a client’s like, I mean, that’s cool, but I’m nauseous now. Like, there’s no need to then constantly advertise that.

Logan
So we just want to make sure that from that planning perspective, if there’s elements within that the client really appreciated, we would definitely want to be able to highlight that stuff as well.

Aaron
Okay, okay. So then this is all starting to get into the unique selling proposition.

Logan
Yes, it all piggybacks together. But before we start to put our own stuff on it of like, oh, I. I do virtual reality stuff. We want to see and identify before we come with our solutions, what were the things that the client really liked as we did it?

Aaron
Okay, okay. So we have an ideal client and now we’re listing out all the things that are important to them.

Logan
To them specifically. Yes, that’s what it is. And it’s hard to not go, well, I also do this, and I also do that. And like, on some of these calls, I have to, like, pull people back and go, hey, that’s great, but like, let’s just bring it back to this client. We can talk about all those other things later. But I just want to stick on this client because I’m going to ask a ton of, like, very specific questions around them. And usually once you stick on just one person, you can then pull out a lot more detail.

Aaron
Okay.

Aaron
Forces you to go further and makes it real as well.

Logan
Yes. So it’s the design process, then the next part’s the actual construction and, like, the project build. Were there things during that they specifically mentioned that they appreciated stuff like that. So that’s the next piece. And then the last part is upon completion and post, was there anything that they called out that they liked, where they actually said, hey, Aaron, I really appreciated that. You know, you actually came out and did your own punch list and like brought up a bunch of stuff that needed to be fixed ahead of time before you asked me to do mine.

Logan
Like things like that or hey, you know, this client told me that when went out and did our like 12 month, you know, warranty check proactively, that I was the only, you know, company she’s ever heard of that will actually proactively come out and do the warranty check before the warranty expires, rather than, you know, just sitting back waiting. Yes. So like, those are the things again. If the client specifically brings it up, that’s definitely a good bright spot. If it seems like something they really like, but maybe they dance around it, then maybe we add an asterisk to that one. But if they didn’t bring it up and it’s really just something that you think is a nice thing for you, that kind of goes into like the it’s a nice thing to have bucket.

Logan
But for this specific example, we would not add that.

Aaron
Okay. Okay. So you’re kind of, you’re building up this list of things that the clients want and things that were important to them. Things, actual feedback that you’ve gotten from them.

Logan
Yes.

Aaron
I would think the danger with this is that at that point then people are just tempted to have like a bullet point list of like, we do this, we do this on their website, social media, things like that. What’s the correct way to use this information?

Logan
So it comes back to the story associated with it. So there’s a whole level of design. I mean, we, you know, we did a whole exercise over the past couple morning meetings here at CGN where like there’s this one higher end design build remodeling company that we didn’t build their website. I don’t even know who they are, but I found their website and they have so much information on it. That’s great information. But the way that they are getting the information across, there’s room for improvement from a design perspective. From how they’re articulating it feels very much like it’s a bit of like fear mongering. Not that they’re wrong by any means. They are saying like, hey, if somebody, if the remodeling company that you work with does not use project management software, that is an issue.

Logan
Instead of going, hey, the best companies out there use project management software because without it, they, these are some of the things that could happen. It’s just, it’s the same information, but it’s how you Say it, sure. But to be able to then figure out what you want to say, you have to have that bullet point list written out ahead of time. So that is the first piece that we do is we identify what do you, like, who do you actually want to work with? What are the things that you did? Walk me through it. And then people will go, oh, we did a 2D rendering and a 3D rendering. I’m like, that’s amazing. Can you send that to me? Because I actually want to see what you’re talking about.

Logan
I don’t want to take your word for it because again, if you’re 3D rendering, maybe the client said, oh, this is nice. And you in your head thought, oh, they said, this is amazing. And then you send me the 3D rendering and it looks like Nintendo 64 graphics. That’s not something that we would want to show off at this time. So we still need to identify what those pieces are because without it, nothing else really matters. Like the whole finesse that comes into marketing with storytelling and design and all that stuff doesn’t really matter because we’re working with kind of like just fluff. Then we’re just adding more fluff to it. We want to start off with like very fact driven things and then find how do we now articulate this into a way that’s appealing and enticing for somebody to go through?

Aaron
Okay, okay. So it sounds, I mean, it seems to me like you need to take these things and put it almost group them into overall values and things they care about. Because it’s like. And tell me if you think I’m off on this. But the stuff like the designer, the example you’re saying like the designer dressing a specific way, it’s not just stopping at that and being like, well, our designers are always dressed this specific way. But it’s like, why was that important to them? I’m assuming the reason would be, is it displays a sense of like authority. I guess the designer would have like somebody that comes in, they actually know what they’re talking about. They’re not just like somebody that has, I don’t know, like an online degree in this or something like that, but doesn’t actually live out the things.

Logan
So yes, it’s that last part is what you said is, do they live out the things? Meaning a designer that shows up that if they’re fashionable, like that’s a big part of all this. Because if you want like a kitchen or a bathroom that’s trendy, could you have somebody that does not also then align with trends, you know, in the fashion sense, that could still do a good job.

Logan
Is the likelihood there? Maybe, maybe not. But, like, it’s much easier to have somebody who shows up. Like, let’s just say my father in law was a sales manager for Johnson, and Johnson really good. Won a bunch of awards for being a really good sales manager. And part of his interview process with a prospect is he would take them to lunch, and at the end, he would walk them to their car. And he was like, logan, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had amazing interviews with people, and then I walk them to their car and. And their car is just. It’s disheveled. It is all over the place. It is chaotic. Like, it looks like they’re living out of their car.

Logan
He’s like, that would be that. That’s a big mark against that person because, like, the likelihood that they show up, super organized, very put together every single day, when their car looks this way, it’s not like it’s. It’s impossible, but the likelihood is a lot lower.

Logan
And this whole. Especially when you know, last time, you know, we talked about high trust, high want, like, people need to be excited by this stuff. Like, the whole show is like a performance. Like, the whole sales process is a performance of, like, you know, you would not want to go and see a magician that’s, like, dressed up, not like a magician. Like, that kind of adds to the act that makes you more bought in of, like, cool. They have a top hat and a cape and stuff like that. Like, so it just makes it easier to buy into it. So that’s where if a designer is dressed a certain way, you don’t need to add, like, a bullet point on your website that says, like, oh, our designers are dressed up this way.

Logan
But you want to make sure that, like, in their team photo, they are dressed up in a way that looks stylish. Because, like, if you want a stylish home, you then want to also work with somebody who is stylish as well.

Aaron
It almost seems to me like you could, like, you’re taking an obscure detail that maybe a client gave you, and you can go back and be like, okay, why was that important to them? What was the real fear there? And it’s like, I’m doing my kitchen. I want to be well designed. Like, if I’m gonna do this, I want it to actually beautiful. And there’s a fear that the person I hire isn’t gonna have a good design sense. I’m gonna regret it in the future. And so now you can kind of see this. This small detail in the context of, oh, okay. So it’s not that, like, them dressing the specific way. That wasn’t. That’s not the thing.

Aaron
That’s just like a symptom almost of them being like, I hope I can trust these people to design skill and thinking of that as the deeper level concern they have.

Logan
Yeah. A lot of people are basing a lot of these decisions on their gut.

Logan
And a lot of people’s guts, like, I think are right. Like, I think a lot of people, like, when they hire a bad contracting company, I think in their gut, they know it’s the wrong decision, but they’re hoping that it works out. Yeah. Yeah. So what you don’t want to do is give them that opportunity because basically, it’s like, if your designer comes in looking really fashionable, really dressed up, then the assumption is going to be, okay, this person is going to be able to design something. Correct. And that person, the homeowner, is now more aligned with the idea that it’s going to be done correctly versus the opposite. Where if you show up, you know, looking disheveled and, like, your pants are way too long as a designer, doesn’t mean that you can’t do it.

Logan
But that person, like, the homeowner in their head has now built up this story around, like, I don’t know if this person can actually get it done. And you’re kind of starting off by digging yourself out of a hole. And it’s already a very expensive, very time consuming, very invasive process. Why start off on the wrong foot?

Aaron
Okay, so. So then the step from there is like, you need to be asking yourself the question of, okay, so if that’s your fear, what things can I be putting out there? What messages or selling proposition? Well, what messages should I be putting out there to alleviate that concern through my marketing?

Logan
Yeah, I mean, like. Like once you have, like, that list of all that stuff, like, that is such a big piece of it. It’s like, basically it’s like if you make like a T on, like a piece of paper, it’s like problem solutions. Like, what’s the problem the client is having? What is our solution? So it’s like problem solution proof is really what it comes down to. So it’s like, oh, okay. If the problem is that somebody is fearful that they are, you know, that the design of their kitchen is not going to look good, the solution Is our designers are really up to date with the design. The proof is, let’s just show them looking fashionable. We’ll show off our actual designs, things like that.

Logan
So that’s the idea here when it comes to, like, the value and the unique selling proposition pieces where it’s really more aligned with what’s their problem that they’re facing, you know, either in their home or as it pertains to hiring a company. What are their fears? What are their concerns? What is your solution to it? That’s one to one.

Logan
And then what is the proof associated with it? And if you have that proof that is a concrete, tangible thing, it is much easier for somebody to buy into it.

Aaron
I mean, so proof in that example could be very simple. It could be like examples of different design renderings that you’ve done before or just examples of your past work. And like, the easiest thing of all with if somebody is able to go through and see in your past work, like that kitchen you did for that family, I want basically exactly that.

Aaron
Like, that would be in my head. That’s the way you could give them the most confidence.

Logan
That’s. That’s such an easy way of getting somebody bought in to you is just by showing them examples of previous stuff that you have done. Because it’s. You know, I was talking to somebody the other day and they’re like, we want to get into home building. You know, we predominately do remodeling, but we want to get into custom home building. I’m like, hey, that’s fine. But like, you either need to like, you know, have you ever done a home building, custom home before? And they’re like, no. And I was like, all right. To get close, you could show off ADUs or carriage houses. Like, have you guys done those? And they’re like, yes, we’ve done those. I’m like, all right, if you’ve done a 1200 square foot ADU, the likelihood that you can do a 2000 square foot house is pretty high.

Logan
But back to the stacking. If somebody’s like, I want an 8000 square foot mansion, you’re like, well, here’s my 1200 square foot carriage house. It’s a little bit different. So maybe you got to go 1200 to 2000 to 4000 to 8000.

Aaron
It requires more faith from the homeowner. Yes.

Logan
And that’s the big part that a lot of people forget, is that the proof builds that faith. It builds all that trust in the client’s eyes that you can actually do this stuff. So that’s where we need to start off with identifying those elements, those bright spots with our past client, and then say, oh, this was the fear that it also solved, and here’s the proof that we actually do it. And those are the elements that really need to happen for the marketing.

Aaron
Okay, can we go through another example as well? Cause that’s kind of like a super specific example of somebody that’s uber concerned about the design being correctly. Like another thing that people. I mean, another one of the big concerns is they’ll look at timeline and budget. Like, is this thing going to go over budget? Can I actually trust this person? What messaging could people put out to alleviate that concern, do you think?

Logan
Okay, so the first piece is, when it comes to budget, first off, the big fear is this going to go over budget? Are there things that are going to get missed? So identifying. What is your solution to that? Like, do you have a solution to that? Because you’re going to. You know, I know especially in the commercial world, it is very common to underbid and then just change, order your way up to whatever you want it to be at the end. The residential world, it still happens. Doesn’t happen as much as commercial, I would say, from just knowing what I know, but it still happens a lot. So what are you doing to get ahead of that? Assuming that is not your approach, if that is your approach, then, you know, all this kind of doesn’t really matter.

Logan
But if your thing is like, we have a set, you know, our contract, it is scoped out. We know exactly what we’re doing. We sit down and we identify everything together. I’m sorry, we identify everything like, together being like you and any of your subs, project managers, whoever that is. So everything is all mapped out. That is how you make sure that as long as you do exactly what you’re supposed to do, it’s not going to go over budget. Now that is your fix to it. Okay, but the proof associated with it then is, that’s great for you, but how do you communicate that to the client? Proof comes down to either one.

Logan
Hey, we’re going to sit down and in detail explain the contract and the scope of work and even bring up, hey, these are the potential FAQs that we typically get associated with this. For example, one of the big FAQs is allowances. Like, you know, when we say this, we’re saying that your allowance for appliances is 25 grand. Now, what that means is you typically can get these different types of appliances for that, if you want to go super high end, that could be 50 grand. And that’s going to go over by 25 grand. So it’s like by saying, hey, we are going to sit down and walk through all this stuff with you proactively. That’s one way to show the proof.

Logan
Or the other side of it is if you have like stats or numbers that say, on average, this is how often we go over budget, you know, like, things like that. So basically, it’s just being able to have numbers and specific pieces that will help make the client feel like, okay, whatever number they present to me, 94% of the time, that is the exact number that it’s going to be. And then the other 6% of the time, it’s because the other one of their clients did a bunch of new stuff that was like, totally, like, not even like, oh, we missed that in the scope.

Aaron
It’s just an add on.

Logan
They just said, hey, by the way, while you’re here, could you also do that bathroom? Like, that’s a different piece that becomes a big part of this. This is like what we’re like with Fry remodeling. He’s really big on that stuff. And like, you know, it’s like 98% of the time he is on time. And the other times that he’s not, it is not because of like, oh, were late by six months. It was like were late by like nine days on average or something along those lines. Then somebody where timing and efficiency is really important to them, we’re able to say, we hit our timelines 98% of the times. And the times that we don’t. This is what that, like what the actual additional time looks like.

Aaron
Okay. So, yeah, it’s like coming up with smart ways to get that across to people. I mean, because you can just say we always hit our timelines or that’s important to us. But another way is like in this Fry example that people might not think about is instead of just putting photos of the project, giving details about the project as well, and saying, here was the proposed timeline and here’s the actual timeline. And then same thing, here is the proposed budget, here was the final budget.

Logan
And if you missed it, why’d you miss it?

Aaron
Yeah, putting a note underneath that.

Logan
Yeah, just saying like, hey, this is what happened. They added this. Or like, whatever that is. Just bring that up. Then that becomes more of a concrete example compared to we hit our timelines or we hit our budgets or on the timeline piece, knowledge is power. So Being able to say, we have software that will keep you in the loop. And it’s this thing called a Gantt chart. And if you’re an engineer, you’re gonna love it because you know what it is. But if you’re not, we’re gonna sit down and explain it to you. So it’s basically just going, what’s the problem? Or the fear that somebody has? What is the solution that we actually do for it? Now, if you don’t have a concrete solution where on the communication side, that’s a big one. Communication is a lot of. Well, it all depends.

Logan
Sometimes we put them in a project management software, sometimes we just text them, sometimes we do a weekly text, sometimes we do a daily text, sometimes we do this, sometimes. So like the word sometimes, that’s a big part of the issue. So you just need to figure out what is consistent that you can then like lean into. So if it’s like, hey, during different phases of the project, you know, we may have daily communication, we may have weekly communication, or we may not even need communication because it’s so quick. But if you know that at the end of every phase of the project you have communication there, then that becomes the big piece that you want.

Logan
Because otherwise, like, even with like warranties, you know, if you’re like, look, we have a two year craftsmanship warranty, a five time warranty on these appliances and a 12 year warranty on these, like, it just starts to become like, that’s too many things. How many warranties do we have? Yeah, so it’s like, just make it consistent. So whatever, like the communication cadence is, get a system down that you can hit consistently, and then ultimately it’s up to the grand client to decide, okay, them communicating with me at least at the end of every single phase, is that worth it to me, is that good enough for me or not? But now this is consistent.

Aaron
Yeah, that makes sense. So it’s always taking things to that next step. Because like what you were talking about there is problem solution and then proof. And it seems like a lot of people, I mean, looking at this conversation as a whole, what most contractors do, it seems like at least looking online is they guess at who their ideal client is, they guess at what the problems are, and then they just say what their solution is. But what we’re proposing through all of this is instead of guessing, figure out who your per, your real ideal client is, come up with a factual example from them, specifically figure out what their problems are. Then once you have the solution, don’t Just put that as a line of text on your website. But think about how can I actually prove that to somebody?

Logan
Yes.

Aaron
How can I show that it was done before? What is the best way to make sure that they confidently know this is true?

Logan
Yes. And the last little piece on that is we just need to show them the proof in a way that they want it and will accept it.

Aaron
What do you mean?

Logan
If I put a bullet point that says our designers are fashionable on my website, that’s not going to be good enough. So we need to get it in the vehicle that they want it in, which is photo evidence.

Logan
Like that is a big part of this is that the seeing is believing part. And if we’re trying to say, hey, here’s a 400 page document that walks through all of our SOPs so you can. So you know exactly what we’re going to do when we do it while we do it, they’re not going to want to read that.

Logan
That is why like Wikipedia ranks so much better online compared to like you know, PhD essays that are like very confusing. Super long versus Wikipedia is like, all right, like this is really how it works, like in an easy to understand way. That’s the last like little piece here is it just has to be in a way where like, you know, there’s a. The person who built my parents house, like their website is, it’s very detail driven. I think last time I saw their like process to build a home is like over 40 steps. It looks nice, they’ve got good graphics with it, but it’s so much that it’s like, okay, this feels like a lot of stuff.

Logan
And maybe their clients, maybe my parents, because they built it before the Internet, but maybe my parents at the time would have said, oh, this is amazing. We wanted to know all these 40 steps because maybe that’s who they are. And in which case that is a perfect way to show your ideal client. We know what your fear is, which is you don’t know what’s going to happen. And our solution is we’re going to map out the step by step process and show it online. But maybe that’s too much. Maybe what we need to do, and this is how most people are, is like we need to then break down your 11 step process into five steps.

Logan
Because otherwise, or three even it’s just too much to consume. But it still needs to be valuable and fact driven. Like we used to be very big on like the story brand stuff where it’s like step one is reach out. Step Two is build. Step three is enjoy. And it’s like, I get the idea behind that, but it still needs to have more fact associated with it. Especially if you’re in a visual industry where, like, the whole point of storybrand is to, like, cut through the noise and, you know, drive with emotion. But a lot of the emotion needs to come from the media that drives the emotion and then the stories behind it. Not so much like marketing fluff, which the media parts, like the next podcast that we’re gonna go through, which is the one that you’re really excited for as well.

Logan
Listen to this one. So that’s. That’s really how it all breaks down, is really coming down to identifying who your ideal client is and being realistic with them. And maybe your ideal client, like, this is like, we have a whole workbook that goes through this stuff. Like, at the end of it, the ideal, like, it says, like, here’s a caveat. Like, this is all a flywheel. Like, right now, your favorite client is the floating shelf person. And you did this, and this. And then you put out photos of the floating shelf, and then you drove traffic to the floating. Floating shelf project walkthrough page. And then somebody goes, wow, that looks great. Do the whole entertainment center for me. And then it just. Then that becomes.

Logan
Yeah, so basically you’re just like, each time you’re sitting down and updating going, is this my favorite client? Yes or no? And then that way you get to kind of build around it, but you’re then also, like, with the floating shelf person, did you have to do a design for that? Maybe not. Maybe for the entertainment center, you just did, like, very high level, like, you just had, like the cabinet shop just do the design. And then eventually, as you work your way up to, like, you know, a full first floor renovation that includes the kitchen, like, that’s a full 3D walkthrough that, like, yeah, a 3D walkthrough for a floating shelf doesn’t make any sense. So it’s just understanding what that is.

Logan
But doing this at each stage of your business and just being realistic with it and then actually having the proof in the way that people want to see it, that then becomes the quote, unquote material that the marketing all needs. Because that’s then gonna. Once you can take all that and compile it into a nice, cohesive way that people understand, that’s when the marketing really actually aligns with somebody wants, you know, with what they want to see.

Aaron
Okay. Okay. So then next episode is all about more diving into the media itself. How do we capture the media? What specifically do we need to capture to help with that proof?

Logan
It’s. Yes, it’s the media. It’s the visuals. So it’s not just, like, how good are my photos or videos? But it’s also, like, from, like, the renderings side. If people are, like, absolutely in love with, like, if you’re very stylish and they. And what’s really important to your ideal client is I want to feel like this is exactly what I want in my home. Like, I want to be able to, like, envision it to a T. Yeah. Then that will drive the idea of, like, okay, do you then put in their furniture in this rendering or not? Because, like, if that is what you want, then that makes sense. Like, that kind of stuff. So that’s what we’ll talk about in the next episode, which is all about the media storytelling a lot more on all that stuff.

Logan
But, yes, this today is a really big one that I just. We stress it all the time on these calls. And even if people, like, listen to this, there’s still this level of, like, well, how do I, you know, how do I then show that? Or, like, you know, is this good enough? Like, a lot of what we do is just stopping and going, all right, timeout. Like, you say you communicate. Like, that’s too vague. Is it specific? Yes or no? Do you have proof of it? Yes or no? Do you have proof of it in a way that somebody who would see it go, okay, I want to actually consume this because if it’s 400 pages of SOPs, they’re not going to go through it. It doesn’t matter.

Aaron
Awesome.

Logan
Cool. All right, guys. Thank you. Next time, it’s going to be all about the media. It’ll be a lot more Aaron on this one, because he’s going to be walking you through a lot of this stuff.

Aaron
We’ll see you guys next time.

Logan
See you.