How to Drive Technology Adoption in Your Business

00:00:00:02 – 00:00:26:23
Logan
At this point. If you’re listening to this podcast, we all know that softwares are out there. They’re beneficial to the company, but the software is only as good as how much we and our teams are actually using it. So and, and I talk all through how to actually provide incentives to the team, how to build friendly competition to get them to actually, you know, use the software itself to make sure that if we’re going to jump all in and get a software, whether it’s job or some other software, people are actually going to use it time and time again.

00:00:26:25 – 00:00:32:20
Logan
We.

00:00:32:22 – 00:00:54:13
Logan
Today I have Anna Hunter from job. She is the director of Learning and Development over there at Job Trent. So Anna, what I’d love for you to do is first just director of learning and development. That’s like a I don’t think many people listen to this, have a director of learning development in their own company. So can you talk through what exactly that means and what you do at job?

00:00:54:13 – 00:00:54:26
Logan
Trent.

00:00:54:28 – 00:01:21:29
Anna
Ooh good question. Yeah. This is kind of a unique, I guess, department, you could call it, for many companies, especially those companies that are not corporate or who are not in the education sector. But typically what it means is that I get the opportunity to not only teach our job to users how to use the system, but also I get to go more broad than that and focus on their growth and their business development for their organizations.

00:01:21:29 – 00:01:46:21
Anna
And so it’s kind of a unique positioning here, where I get to think broader than, simply the processes of using a software and more into how to coach people and using software to enhance their businesses. So, it’s a really great position to be in because I not only get to, teach on more of the micro level, but I get to actually help strategize on the macro level with all of our users.

00:01:46:24 – 00:02:06:09
Logan
So would that be like just understanding how people are growing their businesses and then like how job tread, maybe I can kind of connect the dots to then maybe automate some of those features. Or is it more of like, hey, job has this new product that just came out, and then now this is how you client have to align with it, I guess, like what?

00:02:06:11 – 00:02:07:10
Logan
How does it all work?

00:02:07:17 – 00:02:29:04
Anna
Yeah. All of the above. I wish I wish that it was so straightforward. But sometimes it’s nice not to have that so we can kind of scope creep a little bit and, and really kind of meet our users where they need us. And so, when I see it as though boiling it down is, yes, we get to teach you on how to use job tread.

00:02:29:04 – 00:02:51:10
Anna
We get to share all of our new features with you, but even more so, how can we get the best practices into your hands? And how can we connect to you with other job tread users that are similar to you, so that you can learn from others as well? So not just seeing us as the experts, but also how can we position you around a series of experts that can help you enhance your business?

00:02:51:12 – 00:03:13:22
Logan
Got it. And I know, like, let’s jump into your background because you you didn’t just like cut the job track and go, hey, this software thing is pretty cool. Like you have several like PhDs, like, I know you, like, published a book last year. Can you do you kind of, like, shed some light and maybe, like, brag about yourself a little bit about, you know, how you came to be and what your background is with all of this?

00:03:13:24 – 00:03:34:10
Anna
Yeah. Well, Logan, I’m a middle child and I’m the only redhead in the family, so, bragging. And I like attention, so this works for me pretty well. Well, so I grew up on construction sites. My dad is the contractor. He’s been a contractor my whole life. And, with seven kids in the family, we had to be on the construction site.

00:03:34:10 – 00:03:57:03
Anna
So we didn’t have the option of daycare or nannies, you know, to help us. And so, we grew up with dirt under our nails, and we kept it throughout the years. And so, honestly, those of you from the Midwest, menards was my playground in the we love being, you know, in the stores, meeting other contractors and and so it was really kind of a cool foundation to my upbringing.

00:03:57:06 – 00:04:23:06
Anna
And then I ended up going into college and focusing on the psychology side of humans, where, I ended up getting my bachelor’s in more of like, health sciences, but then onto my master’s, I focused on counseling, and that’s where I really started understanding the human approach to everything in this world and how we need to keep that front and center, understand where people are coming from before we actually make decisions.

00:04:23:06 – 00:04:51:09
Anna
Right. And then, after I worked in higher education or at colleges, teaching leadership and such, I ended up going back to school, like you said, and got a doctorate in organizational development. But it really focused on change management, because yes, we can develop our organizations and we can grow our businesses. But if we’re not keeping the change process in mind as far as how people navigate change, then it’s going to end up stunting us and our growth in the long run.

00:04:51:09 – 00:05:27:07
Anna
So, that was really kind of something that I found myself leaning into natural early. And then I looked back and I’m like, gosh, every job that I’ve had, I ended up becoming the person that brought on the software and then introduced the software and implemented the software for our department, our organization. And so then when I saw that, Eric Fortenberry, the founder and CEO, Job Shred, when I saw that he started, was starting this company, I thought, you know, construction, we have software, we have, the opportunity to kind of help users adopt software.

00:05:27:09 – 00:05:50:28
Anna
And I couldn’t help but see myself working here so that I could position myself in a role where I can use all of those skills and all of my background in one place. So, the, the focus now that I have is really leaning into software implementation. But by keeping your people first front and center and, software is only as good as the people behind it.

00:05:51:03 – 00:06:08:15
Anna
And so, that’s what the book is about. It’s specifically on the human approach to software implementation. So I think that that’s very relevant in today’s age, as we are all looking for software to solve our problems. The only way that we can really solve our problems is through the people that are using it.

00:06:08:17 – 00:06:24:28
Logan
So one of the things that we did here at CGA, maybe three years ago was, and tell me if this story sounds familiar, but basically what we did was we were like, look, we’re gonna get way more system driven as a company. And what we’re going to do is we’re going to go out, we’re going to find a project management software.

00:06:25:05 – 00:06:46:28
Logan
And we went out it was just our ops manager went out, found it, came back, said, this is the one that we’re using go. And basically what happened was we were trying to everybody. First off, it was more of like, hey, by the way, we’re all in this software now, so get used to it. There was no like meetings about it or discussions around it.

00:06:46:28 – 00:07:05:25
Logan
It was just like yesterday. We had no software and today we have a software. This we signed up for. We were everybody was told to like, hey, there’s tons of tutorials online. You figure it out, we’ll have some trainings, but not really. And then as we’re doing that, we’re also trying to figure out what what systems do we have that are good, what systems need to change.

00:07:05:25 – 00:07:29:20
Logan
So we’re basically trying to implement a new software with minimal training as we’re trying to update our actual processes. And I would say at the six month mark, nobody had used that software for, you know, like at that point, like nobody was doing it anymore. And then of course, we did not renew renew after the first year because basically it was too much all at once.

00:07:29:20 – 00:07:51:00
Logan
And it was horrible to the point where, like, if you if you mention the word clickup in this office, there’s a few people that like, still get very frustrated. Just so. Yeah. Does that like as I talk through that, is that something that a lot of like construction companies are dealing with, or is this primarily just like CG as a marketing agency?

00:07:51:00 – 00:07:52:15
Logan
Struggle with it.

00:07:52:17 – 00:08:15:24
Anna
You’re not alone. This is a narrative that I have heard over and over again, whether it’s someone in the construction industry or out, honestly, it it’s we all have this like excitement that comes with finding a solution that can solve our problems. But what we’re not doing is we’re not defining the problem really well right away and getting our team to understand the problem before we try to solve it.

00:08:15:27 – 00:08:39:09
Anna
And so, I lean on what I call the three CS, and I’ve actually added A4C to that recently. And it’s really the, the idea of clarity. We have to identify the problem, be very clear about what’s not working in our organization. And this is not something that you just do as a business owner. Define the problem. No, your whole team has to define the problem together.

00:08:39:11 – 00:08:58:24
Anna
And then you need to develop consensus around that. So that’s a second C is okay. Is everybody in agreement that this is a problem at the company. And it is not going to get better unless we do something. And then the third C is commitment. Get a commitment from your whole team about, hey, what do we need to do in order to fix this?

00:08:58:28 – 00:09:19:10
Anna
Do we have a commitment to fixing this in the first place? And then what is our route to get there? And then you can start searching for the solution like a software system. And then after that point, develop curiosity with your team, get them curious, get them looking for solutions. Or if you found something, start to just bring it into some conversations.

00:09:19:10 – 00:09:34:19
Anna
Hey, you know, we we saw this, software called job. Tried it at this conference. I’m really curious to hear what you all think about it or. Hey, it there was somebody that I talked to that used this system. Could you take a look at that? You know, and you don’t have to solve the problems for them.

00:09:34:19 – 00:09:57:01
Anna
But if you develop the curiosity for your team there and they’ll start to search, they will start to look into it. And now you have their wheels turning and now they’re engaged. So really kind of getting them in the conversation from the start and then into actually looking for the software. And that will automatically kind of help them be positioned in order for that change to take place.

00:09:57:06 – 00:09:59:05
Anna
Bringing in a software program.

00:09:59:07 – 00:10:24:24
Logan
So what I want to do is I want to talk through the first day of clarity. Yeah. So if you’re listening to this, I want to I want you to think through before you jumped into our software. Like, whatever. Like your problem was like how well defined maybe you had it coming into it, but in your case, into when we’re talking about establishing clarity of what the actual problems are, how much of this should be, you know, we know we have these five problems.

00:10:24:24 – 00:10:44:08
Logan
And until we can sit down, identify, we’re not even going to touch a software versus, hey, we think we have this one problem. Once we implement this software, the other users are actually going to say, that’s not really your problem. Your problem are these other five things. So you’re kind of like learning and getting more clarity around the problems as you go.

00:10:44:11 – 00:10:55:16
Logan
So is it more of like you have to know this stuff to be most effective when implementing, or is it more of like, as long as you have one problem, we’ll pick out the other problems as the solution starting to get implemented.

00:10:55:16 – 00:11:14:15
Anna
For now, I think what you’re getting at here, Logan, is the idea of analysis paralysis, right? If you try too much, or if you spend too much time thinking through what the problem is, you’re never going to take action to actually like solving it or trying to resolve it. And, and I shouldn’t have even use the word solve.

00:11:14:16 – 00:11:35:12
Anna
We’re not solving problems here. What we’re doing is we’re reducing them and we’re mitigating any resistance that we have. Right? So the the idea here is to at least get to a point where we have, 70% understanding of the root of the issue. And after 70%, you can do something with that. Your team can recognize that there’s an issue.

00:11:35:12 – 00:11:58:13
Anna
They can all build that commitment around solving it. You don’t have to have 100% clarity on the problem because also some of these software systems can help bring out more clarity for you. So being a little bit open minded there is actually really beneficial. I’d say if you’re trying to figure out where to start as far as identifying the problem that you have or the problems, start with kind of mapping out your processes.

00:11:58:13 – 00:12:15:12
Anna
It sounds so simple, but there are so many people who have never done this where I mean, you know how you run a job from start to finish. So map that out. You know, it’s easy to think in your mind. Yeah, we do presales, we do estimating, and then we go into the project management and then we do close out.

00:12:15:19 – 00:12:36:18
Anna
Great. That’s awesome on a macro level. But that’s not going to bring forth any gaps or illuminate any, you know, feedback loops or things like that. So what you need to do is break it down even further. You know, what steps are the individual small steps that you’re doing, and then who’s doing those steps throughout an entire project phase?

00:12:36:18 – 00:12:54:16
Anna
And then you can start to recognize, oh, there’s gaps here or oh my gosh, you know, when we are making this bid request, there’s five people in our company touching it. That’s a lot. And that ends up becoming lower and lower on every one of those five people’s priority lists. And that’s why you’re not getting those bid requests out for ten days.

00:12:54:18 – 00:13:14:15
Anna
Hey, so it’s, it’s really kind of helpful to map that process out. I have seen that one of our customers use sticky notes for this. So, AMC Lehman at Lehman Construction, he has done an awesome job of mapping out his processes using sticky notes across the wall. And he had his whole team involved in mapping the processes out.

00:13:14:15 – 00:13:31:08
Anna
And they were arguing about where those sticky notes went. And they were trying to figure out, you know, exactly what it looks like now and then with sticky notes. The best part of this is that you can move them. So then you can adjust them and say, okay, we need to streamline this. We need this to move over here and this to move over there.

00:13:31:10 – 00:13:45:01
Anna
Now, once you have kind of a decent understanding of what your processes look like, now, you can find software that supports those processes rather than trying to just get a software to solve everything that you’re not even clear about yourself.

00:13:45:03 – 00:14:13:24
Logan
So I think that was like what you’re describing, like we like at CG and we go through, iOS, which is basically how to run a business. But one of the things that we do every week is ideas, and AI stands for like, identify the issue. And basically a lot of times what we say is like, oh, we’re having an issue of, I don’t know, we can’t hire this one position or we’re having bad candidates come through when you actually then kind of dive deeper into what we think the issue is and how to solve it.

00:14:13:26 – 00:14:39:24
Logan
We’re realizing it’s actually more of a symptom. Not really the actual root problem. So what you’re talking about is, you know, when you’re sitting down and you’re, you know, you’re going, hey, our overall problem is we’re not getting people into design phase fast enough, you know, is that the problem or is the problem like what you’re talking about where, you know, we have five different people have to touch the estimate before we can, you know, like it takes so long.

00:14:39:24 – 00:14:56:09
Logan
And that’s really more of the root of the problem. So what we’re talking about here is almost screen like, it sounds like a flowchart, if you will, of like like or order of operations of stuff I guess like is the sticky note root is like with your background. I’m sure that’s a very rudimentary way. But if that’s what works like that, I mean, we do whiteboard over here.

00:14:56:10 – 00:15:06:05
Logan
See, Dan, is that the best way to like approach figuring out your overall process and what you know, how to isolate the problems that we’re having, things like that?

00:15:06:07 – 00:15:25:14
Anna
I think so. And, honestly, sticky notes are still in my daily life for this reason. I also have used Legos to help teens figure this out. Where the each person built their office with Legos, and then we use masking tape to kind of rule out where paper was moving through the office. It doesn’t matter what tools you’re using.

00:15:25:14 – 00:15:55:00
Anna
And in fact, that can be a team building experience if you get more, you know, unique with it. But, yes, I think so, because right now, having all of our information in our heads is not helping us to process and identify where those gaps are. The bottlenecks are. But when we get it out of our heads, and especially from multiple perspectives in the company on paper, you’re realizing like, whoa, I didn’t even realize that this was moving in this route or that, we had a bottleneck here.

00:15:55:00 – 00:16:15:24
Anna
And so the more that you can get all this information out of people’s heads, better off you’ll be at solving the problem also. Then it removes the personal part of it. So let’s think about psychology here. When I have a system in my in my mind that I built and I feel really confident about that, and I am now tied to it, I’m connected to it.

00:16:15:24 – 00:16:39:27
Anna
I identify with it. Now, when we are talking about this process, having an issue or being a bottleneck, I’m going to feel personally responsible for that. But also I will feel very defensive of it when we get that out of my head and put it on a wall with sticky notes. Now it’s on a wall. It’s not in my mind anymore and we can actually work with it.

00:16:39:29 – 00:16:56:27
Anna
It’s just like having an argument with your partner, right? Where, we all get kind of tied to our ideas. But if you just write down what the problem is and put it in the center of the table, then you can talk about it. And it’s not, a problem that somebody is owning anymore. It’s a problem that gets to be solved.

00:16:57:00 – 00:17:15:02
Logan
So when we’re talking about this, because like the defensiveness I imagine is huge, where it’s very much, hey, you know, especially if it’s an owner that’s been doing it for a while, hey, I’ve been doing this for 20 years. I’ve been with the company for two years. How are you going to come in and shift stuff? Or like, hey, we tried that back in 2004.

00:17:15:02 – 00:17:36:00
Logan
It didn’t work. So we’re not going back to that. How involved does getting the team into problem solving, like actually help to identify what the problems are, where they lie, how to solve it, versus just the owner going into, you know, their office and coming out a day later going, I have it all mapped out. We’re good to go.

00:17:36:00 – 00:17:37:29
Logan
Yeah.

00:17:38:02 – 00:18:02:21
Anna
Two things here. First of all, have you ever seen an undercover boss? Yes. The owner never knows what’s going on behind the scenes. And even if you think you do, I challenge that. I encourage you to just sit in your customers. Even your your employees. Shoes, your subs, shoes. Sit in those shoes for a little bit. Let them tell you how they are doing their job and just shut your mouth.

00:18:02:22 – 00:18:21:14
Anna
You know, like listen. Because often we don’t do that. We think it is beautiful. You know, from a big picture perspective. We’re like, yep, you know, if we are on time with our projects, that’s all that matters. No, but you don’t see the pain that’s happening behind the scenes. And so really, get your head kind of out of the numbers, out of the schedule.

00:18:21:14 – 00:18:42:27
Anna
And I know that others may argue this with me, but I think that as a as a leader, as an owner, we need to step into our followers experience and hear it from their perspective. And then you’re going to really the illuminated to a lot of gaps. You’re also going to find some opportunities there to maybe untapped resources that you didn’t know about.

00:18:42:27 – 00:19:02:20
Anna
And so I think it’s beneficial and multiple fronts. Also, the second point here is that if you as an owner are creating or solving the problem for your team, you might feel like you are the Savior coming in to do that. However, your team is not going to be bought in to that solution. So again, that commitment part is so important.

00:19:02:20 – 00:19:26:12
Anna
And once you get your team members on board with the solution, they’re going to feel a sense of ownership and they will carry that solution forward. So I know, Logan, we’re going to be talking a little bit more about, how to get your team to use a system. And this is kind of the bridge to that. If you don’t bring them in from the beginning, then over time they’re going to feel more disconnect from it.

00:19:26:14 – 00:19:43:21
Anna
And I don’t know about you, but when I was told to do chores, I didn’t want to do them. But then when it was my idea to do the chores because I got an incentive for it, then I did them. And so it’s a very similar thing with your users and software, is they have to feel like part of this was their idea.

00:19:43:21 – 00:19:50:12
Anna
So they have ownership and they want to drive it forward. Otherwise you’re going to have the hard job of driving it forward from now on.

00:19:50:14 – 00:20:07:07
Logan
Well, let’s let’s transition to that then. So because like at the end of the day, you know, software is only as good as how much you use it. It’s because I know I mean we deal with this in our world with marketing where a lot of people are like, well, what kind of camera should I go out and get if I want to take better photos of my projects and stuff like that?

00:20:07:07 – 00:20:32:05
Logan
And I’m just like, look like you’re not even taking iPhone photos right now. So like, you know, you’re going to go out and spend a bunch of money, but ultimately you’re not actually going to do the thing because it’s, it’s it’s not like, oh, if I go to CRM, then I’ll start tracking leads. The people that are just tracking leads in spreadsheets, those are the ones that when they do a CRM, they actually adopt it versus those that are like, once I get this thing, then I’m going to start job costing that, you know?

00:20:32:12 – 00:20:50:06
Logan
So there’s a lot of, buy in that needs to happen from both the owner but also the team. So when it comes to getting, you know, especially, you know, we’re talking blue collar more so than, you know, maybe like with us where we’re, we’re you know, we work in an office and people are more used to using tech.

00:20:50:08 – 00:21:00:09
Logan
How are the companies out there that are really crushing it with job tracker softwares in general in the construction space? How are they really getting that for team buy in from the beginning?

00:21:00:11 – 00:21:20:19
Anna
So that’s a great question. So again, first and foremost and get them involved before even picking the software. Or if you’ve already picked the software and you feel like it’s too late, don’t worry there are weakness to do it. I but the ideal way is getting them involved on wanting to solve the problem with you. After that point when you do have the software.

00:21:20:23 – 00:21:53:24
Anna
Okay, great. Now start to think about your talents among your team. You might have a field employee. We absolutely loves organizing things. Gosh, use them for helping to set up the system. You know, even though that’s not their job in your company, they will still be bought into the system. If you kind of give them this special project or if you have, you know, an office manager, let’s say, who truly understands how to communicate with your clients or how to move through the budgeting aspects of your jobs.

00:21:53:26 – 00:22:14:27
Anna
Okay, we’ll put them in charge of creating the SOPs or standard operating procedures for using this software. You know, the more that you can get your team involved in the setup process, the more they will take that ownership. Again, it’s all about ownership. If you have high engagement with your team from the from the very beginning, they’ll want to then see it through.

00:22:15:00 – 00:22:33:24
Anna
If you don’t, then they are just going to feel like it’s something that was pushed upon them. And it’s just another thing they have to learn, right? And so we all are inundated with software every single day. And so, I don’t know about you, but sometimes it gets overwhelming. And I even resisted ChatGPT when it first came out.

00:22:33:25 – 00:22:59:16
Anna
So I’m like, no, not another thing. And, you know, you also, I should mention, don’t even know the fears that your employees are having. In that moment. When ChatGPT came out, I was fearful, and I didn’t realize that until I actually sat with it for a minute. Even though I do this for a living. I was fearful of, you know, the threat that that would bring to me and my job and, and how it was going to change the trajectory of my work.

00:22:59:16 – 00:23:36:29
Anna
Like, there’s a lot of emotions that can come with the transition process of bringing on software. There’s over 15 different types of fears that people could have around new software coming into their, their environment. And so, listening to your employees and trying to be proactive with those conversations can really help. And so one example that I have here is, you know, maybe there’s a customer or customer, maybe there’s a employee in your company who, had built a really great process, and now their process is going to be put on the shelf because the software is going to do it for you all.

00:23:37:01 – 00:23:54:19
Anna
Okay, well, that’s scary for that person. And suddenly what they had built and what they put a lot of energy in is now going to be replaced. And what does that mean for them in their role? Do they still have a value in the company that they had at that time when they first built the process? That’s a lot of emotions to work through.

00:23:54:21 – 00:24:12:24
Anna
Also, there’s a grieving process involved. Any change brings forth grief. And so if you are not recognizing, oh gosh, this is a loss for some people to bring in the software, you as an owner or a leader can be super excited to bring a new software. And this is going to change everything. It’s going to make everything so awesome.

00:24:12:27 – 00:24:36:28
Anna
But a lot of your team members may feel a sense of loss, you know, like loss of control, a loss of a job, a loss of understanding, a loss of their position in the company. So really start to think about how the new software could impact your employees and how those conversations early with them, reassure them and help them understand that it’s not going to be something that will cause a loss on their end.

00:24:36:28 – 00:25:03:00
Anna
But actually, how can this be a gain for them? Also, every employee has problems that they face on a daily in your company, and if you don’t think that they do, that’s where you really need to step into their shoes. But if you sit with them and see what their problems are that they’re facing every day and try to position the software as something that can solve those unique little nuance problems, then they’re going to be even more curious, right?

00:25:03:00 – 00:25:11:29
Anna
So we really have to have the software be seen as something that is an added benefit for each individual, not just for the company.

00:25:12:01 – 00:25:36:11
Logan
Yeah, I remember like just on the fear side. And you brought up earlier about like change management and I didn’t I didn’t realize was like the owner of the company where like I kind of have like final say on on things like just the amount of like power you have. And I remember I was in a, there’s a workshop I went to and basically the guy was saying, look, as the owner, you could be the nicest owner ever or you’re super cool with everybody.

00:25:36:11 – 00:26:03:21
Logan
But at the end of the day, you are a black bear in the room. Meaning at any point the black bear, they could be super nice. They could know how to juggle running a unicycle. They could still kill you. So it’s like just the and the whole premise was basically like, understand that when you and I so deal with this with with the team where they’re like, Logan, like when you say something, you sometimes say it kind of harshly, just the fact that it’s coming from you, even if you said it softly, we’re going to take it in a very potentially harsh manner.

00:26:03:26 – 00:26:27:04
Logan
So like, recognize that you can’t say something very, you know, it’s kind of a tougher, more intense thing to say in a very intense way. You have to soften it up and go more on how you say it in a nice way, because it will still land in a very like, aggressive manner. So I imagine with like a lot of this stuff, you know, like the fear around, hey, we’re doing a new software.

00:26:27:07 – 00:26:51:00
Logan
It immediately goes to Will I have a job. And I remember I read a book back in the day of all that marketing attribution and the very first chapter, which is basically all about how to get, you know, attribution, meaning how to know in your business what’s working from like a revenue generation perspective. The whole first chapter of this book was the guy saying, Jesse, you know, this is super helpful, but it also he’s like, I have gone into companies and put these systems in place.

00:26:51:07 – 00:27:17:24
Logan
And they had they got rid of entire departments because they realized, wow, hey, we thought email marketing, for example, was super effective. And once we actually put these systems in place, we realized they didn’t. They were hardly doing much to drive the company forward. We need to reallocate those funds, and we removed all those people. So it was it was such like a nerdy topic that this guy was like going, you know, with great power comes great responsibility into it.

00:27:17:25 – 00:27:44:26
Logan
At first was like, was kind of odd. But as he started giving examples of like teens getting laid off for this, it was like, oh, wow, this is actually a real thing, right? So when it comes to implementing software in this place and people are nervous about it, one of the things that you brought up was basically, hey, you need to go in and say, look, and I’m not I’m not saying that, you know, as you’re the person who does all the estimates, you know, and we’re now about to get the software that’s going to really help expedite estimates.

00:27:44:29 – 00:28:07:08
Logan
It’s not necessarily that we’re trying to replace you. It’s it’s we’re trying to, you know, help you even more. How much does the owner need to know the software in and out to then be able to have that conversation, to say, no, no, no, I know exactly how job does estimates. This is how it’s going to benefit you versus the owner going, look, I’m not really the software person, but I know that we all need to do this.

00:28:07:10 – 00:28:12:07
Logan
Let’s figure out together how this software can help with your estimating.

00:28:12:13 – 00:28:30:27
Anna
Yes. I think what you were leaning into at the end there, Logan, is the key, right? You don’t have to have all the answers for them to have these conversations. And you also don’t have to identify the fear for your employee. You can sit down and ask your employee, hey, you know, I know that this will be a change.

00:28:30:27 – 00:28:51:16
Anna
How would this impact you? And having that question presented to you and to an employee just opens the door for the conversation, and then they can tell you fears that they have. Maybe it’s even a fear of this is going to add a ton more work to my plate. And that’s scary, right? And so if they already feel overwhelmed, oh my gosh, now you’re pushing them deeper underwater in their eyes.

00:28:51:23 – 00:29:17:16
Anna
So asking the question and allowing them to tell you the answer is going to be really important also. Because that’ll reduce assumptions that you might have about them as well. But then if they tell you fears that they have, this is a moment of creating that curiosity, like, gosh, that’s a very valid fear. And I’m really curious if there’s any part of your job that could be benefited by this software.

00:29:17:22 – 00:29:37:09
Anna
If there’s a sticky point or a pain point that you experience every day or every week in your work, what is that pain point and help them identify that and then say, I wonder if this software can help. Here’s resources. Could you take a look into the YouTube? You know, JobTread has over 400 videos on our YouTube channel for that reason.

00:29:37:09 – 00:29:55:04
Anna
And watch be transparent. Let’s help teens to see what they need. Right. And so here’s the YouTube for this software. Go and take a look at it and tell me if you find a way that the software could help you. And so while it might be more work to ramp up, it might take off some work off your plate as well.

00:29:55:06 – 00:30:09:29
Anna
So get them curious, get them exploring and answering our own questions, and help them to alleviate their own fears. You don’t have to be the one that can do that, all of that for them. But if you’re facilitating that conversation, that’s really what your role should be.

00:30:10:01 – 00:30:29:02
Logan
What do you do if you have somebody that’s just, like, so resistant to the new software? Like my my cousin works construction management, but he’s like in commercial and he talks, but he’s like, you have these kids, they come out of college, they have a degree in construction management, and they’re walking around with iPads, you know, trying to show everything on the job site.

00:30:29:02 – 00:30:48:09
Logan
And then you have these 55 year old, six year old project managers that have never used an iPad in their life. And it was just like he was explaining, like the iPad is correct, but there’s a whole level of like the people using the iPad don’t have that much experience, but the people that don’t use the iPad are doing things inefficiently.

00:30:48:09 – 00:31:05:13
Logan
But they know all the ins and outs of stuff. So like if you have somebody that you know is that they’ve been in the trades for a long time, you’re coming and going. I know we can make this thing better. And they’re just resistant. Is this is a scenario where ultimately just doesn’t work and we got to go our separate ways.

00:31:05:13 – 00:31:13:18
Logan
Or is there like, well, maybe we just let this one person not use this software, but everybody else is going to do it I guess. How how do you approach scenarios like that?

00:31:13:18 – 00:31:41:17
Anna
Yeah, change resistance is one of my favorite things to work through because there’s always a why, there’s always a reason for it, you know? And and this is where those conversations should be happening. So continuing to tell them to use it is not going to help here. You have to solve the what’s in it for me. Right. So if I just tell someone, hey, you need to be using job tread, because that’s how I’m going to know what’s going on in the job or on the workplace.

00:31:41:20 – 00:32:17:24
Anna
Sorry. At the job place. Job site in the office. That’s how I’m going to know what’s going on with the business. That’s not giving them any benefit to use it. And so really start to kind of think about how can you position the software so that it adds benefit to them. And this is kind of extending off of one of my recent points, but even more so like kind of packing the software full of value is going to be one of your biggest bang for your buck because, if you create a software, environment that is a one stop shop for your employees, it’s going to be the place that they go to and

00:32:17:24 – 00:32:42:03
Anna
that they start relying on. So, for example, creating, you know, fields with data in the software for everything when it comes to, clickable link to go and see the job site location on Google Maps so they can easily route to it or, having, you know, information about the client that they have these patterns and this is what to expect.

00:32:42:03 – 00:33:03:03
Anna
And here’s the access code for the house and all of the nuance information that they would ask you or ask somebody else or text somebody for, put all that in the system. The more value you can pack into the system, the more they will see what’s in it for them, and they’ll start relying on it, and then we can get it to be a part of their routine.

00:33:03:05 – 00:33:25:28
Anna
Also, you can incentivize software. I mean, it’s something that I’ve seen so many users do and it works. So they have done things like, hey, if you submit, this many photos every single day on the job site, or if you create a daily log for 30 days straight every single day, then you’re going to get an added bonus on your on your paycheck.

00:33:26:01 – 00:33:46:27
Anna
You know it. Honestly, that money should be a drop in the bucket for you knowing the value that can come from it. Additionally, I’ve seen people use software for team engagement, and so they’ll post people’s birthdays on there. They will post, jokes on the activity feeds and things that really kind of gets their team to use the software in a different way.

00:33:46:29 – 00:34:10:02
Anna
But drives their engagement. So, that would be one thing packed full of value. Another thing is don’t save data in multiple places. If you are giving them the choice to go to an Excel spreadsheet versus this new software, they’re going to keep going to the Excel spreadsheet. So you can if you are really uncomfortable and you’re in the transition process, okay, keep the Excel spreadsheet, but don’t let anyone access it.

00:34:10:02 – 00:34:36:03
Anna
But you. You can change those permissions and then make them use the software as the only source of truth. If once you get through that transition point, though, once you’re implemented, get rid of the spreadsheet yourself. If they don’t see you using the software to get your truth, then they are not going to be encouraged to use the software themselves and they will start thinking, gosh, them, this is not going to be the source of truth that our company should be using.

00:34:36:05 – 00:34:42:04
Anna
So you have to be bought in. You have to have it as the only source of truth, and you have to pack it full of value.

00:34:42:07 – 00:35:04:01
Logan
So that was gonna be like my question was when we, when somebody or when we’re trying to adopt this into our company, do we just dip our toe in and then get our ankle then or knees then, you know, slowly we go in? Or is this like a yesterday we did a spreadsheet and now we’re doing, you know, this software and it sounds like it’s hey, we’re going to prep for this.

00:35:04:01 – 00:35:24:27
Logan
We’re going to have meetings. So everybody’s on the same page. But once you make the switch, we’re all in. Now if that’s the approach, let’s say you’re the owner and you’re now trying to work with, you know, the estimator and then the project manager and like, the subs, like, is the should it be something where everybody jumps in all at once?

00:35:24:27 – 00:35:42:01
Logan
So it’s almost like the estimator and the PM, you know, if they’re dealing with frustrations or if they’re dealing with successes with the software, they can kind of connect. Because I know it’s it’s one thing if the owner says, look, you got to use this software, but it’s another thing if they’re direct, peer is going, hey, this is a great software.

00:35:42:07 – 00:36:00:16
Logan
Now they’re a little bit more receptive to it. So is the idea that we say, all right, yesterday we did not use a software and now the whole team is using it. Or is it like, hey, I’m just going to work with the estimator first as the owner, get them ready to roll. You know, because I can really only spend X amount of time trying to get somebody into the software.

00:36:00:16 – 00:36:08:04
Logan
I can’t do the whole company at once. So we’re kind of sticking and moving person by person. Or is it the we’re all going to it all at the same time?

00:36:08:07 – 00:36:24:28
Anna
It’s a really good question, and I wish I could be straightforward in the answer. It’s really honestly circumstantial. If you’re in the middle of a super high end big project, you may have some overlap between your software programs if you’re switching from one to the other, or you may have overlap from your Excel spreadsheet to the software program.

00:36:25:04 – 00:36:48:15
Anna
And that’s okay as long as your team has clarity on when to use which. Okay, now I have also seen some that start with department by department and that kind of work. If you are focusing on specific priorities. So if you’re thinking, all right, when we bring down the software our top priority is estimating. And then our next priority is scheduling.

00:36:48:15 – 00:37:26:00
Anna
Okay great. So then you can package those and learn and build the software to meet your needs in those areas one by one. However, I challenge you and I encourage you to kind of think about, you know, could you tackle more and could you get higher engagement if you let go as the owner a little bit and enabled and empowered your team members to take on the implementation process, and so you could pick your champion from each of your departments, if you have a larger company and say, all right, from the estimating team, this person is going to be like our job tread implementer.

00:37:26:00 – 00:37:51:17
Anna
And then from the project manager team, this person’s going to drive it forward you know. And then you can get them to be learning all at the same time. And then you can have, you know, meetings with them as they go through the implementation process. Make sure that they know when you want to be involved in decisions and when you’re empowering them to make the decisions on their own because they know their jobs better than you know their.

00:37:51:19 – 00:38:02:16
Anna
And so that way then you can kind of have a team approach to it. So it really kind of depends on your size, your company, your comfort level and what kind of projects you’re in. The middle of right now.

00:38:02:19 – 00:38:23:06
Logan
So with that last part of it, you know what projects are in the live right now. I’d imagine there’s a lot of people that would. That’s how we were at Clickup. We we got it. And then because everything was so busy and we’re trying to work on, you know, like basically we did not we felt like we did not have the time to then implement a software that was going to help us save time.

00:38:23:09 – 00:38:39:28
Logan
So ultimately we just kept on this rat race until we finally had enough pain that we said we have to do this thing. So yeah, it’s is there a right and a wrong time to implement a software? That’s going to be a pretty large change within the business?

00:38:40:00 – 00:38:56:24
Anna
You know, that’s a really good question. And I would say if you keep putting it off, then now is the right time. That just means that you’re never going to get to a point where you feel like ready or that you don’t have enough, or that you do have the time. And hopefully that’s the case.

00:38:56:24 – 00:39:17:28
Anna
Hopefully your business is booming and you’re continuing to be busy. Then that would be great, you know? But that then just means you gotta not put it off anymore. In some other cases, though, you know, for, like, our outdoor living contractors, you might be the most busy in the spring and summer months. So then you can plan for maybe a fall or winter, you know, onboarding.

00:39:17:28 – 00:39:38:23
Anna
And that would be great as well. But I would say that the, the biggest thing to really kind of think about is how you’re going to dedicate time each day to get this up and rolling every single software program, every single one of them will have a ramp up. And that just means that you have to put in more effort, but beginning to then get the return in the end and save time in the end.

00:39:38:23 – 00:39:59:15
Anna
And so, even just spending, you know, a half hour or an hour every morning, wake up a little earlier every morning and spend some time on it, that has been proven actually to be very successful for a lot of our users. And so it’s it’s really a commitment is what it boils down to is making the commitment and just keeping it as a priority.

00:39:59:18 – 00:40:22:22
Anna
But, I seen so many people do like arbitrary timelines for, okay, we’re going to we’re going to just pick a day and by this date we’re going to get it up and running, or by this date we’re going to get our team using it. You don’t have to do that. You know, as long as you have a strategy on priorities that you want to, you know, pick up with the new software, then you can get your team learning while you’re building it out.

00:40:22:22 – 00:40:29:04
Anna
And that’s the best approach overall, because then everyone’s approaching it and at the same time, and then you’re ready to go.

00:40:29:06 – 00:40:56:14
Logan
So one of the things that you brought up earlier that I want to kind of go back to is the idea of champions. And if you’re listening to this, I want you to think through, you know, when you have a software, are you typically the champion or is there somebody else on your team that is the champion? So when you’re working with, you know, organizations and about the idea of champions, is this, like the owner needs to go in and go, look into, you know, software.

00:40:56:15 – 00:41:19:02
Logan
I see you use TikTok every so often. You’re going to be the job tread champion. Or is it like, hey, we need to have a champion for this. Who wants to do it? I guess. What’s the best way to actually identify who should be the champion, and then make sure that they’re seeing this thing through versus just raising their hand because they think that the boss wants them to raise their hand for this thing.

00:41:19:02 – 00:41:40:20
Anna
Yeah, yeah, that’s a really good question. Think beyond your teacher’s pet, you know. Yeah. Honestly, I was a teacher’s pet. I can I can say that, but, you know, it’s it’s often, often the person that would be jumping at it is going to be somebody who’s like a starter, but they might not be the best person to follow through and finish it.

00:41:40:20 – 00:42:07:20
Anna
Right. Or they may not be the best person to get the rest of your team using it. And so, think beyond that, a real passion. I think back to this big undertaking that I did at a university I worked at, and, my supervisor was fantastic. He said, hey, Anna and Paige, you two are going to do this implementation of this entire campus wide software system.

00:42:07:23 – 00:42:25:27
Anna
And I was newer and I didn’t really know Paige very well, but what I knew about her is that her and I were complete opposites. And so we were like, okay, I guess we’re going to do this. And he said, here are the times where I want you to come to me with the decision. Otherwise, I trust you to make all the rest of the decisions, you know.

00:42:25:27 – 00:42:50:23
Anna
And so it was very clearly laid out for us. So Paige and I went off and we planned meetings, and we eventually ended up being very successful in bringing on this software system. And it was very widely adopted because we were opposites. If we weren’t opposites and always and and I’m saying this because she’s now my best friend, we are literally opposites in every single way.

00:42:50:25 – 00:43:09:06
Anna
We did the Myers-Briggs, mBTI assessments and all of that, and every result was opposite. But, the cool part about that is that we could approach it from two different angles. I’m a starter. I don’t like maintaining things very well, and I also I can finish if we’re close to the finish line. I do like that as well, but I am a starter.

00:43:09:06 – 00:43:28:06
Anna
I’m a go getter and also that teacher’s pet. But she’s the one that loves maintaining things and she loves following through. And so he positioned us so well to be a team to carry this forward. So it doesn’t have to be one person. It could be multiple people. And in fact, that would be advantageous because you never know what will happen with someone.

00:43:28:13 – 00:43:54:18
Anna
But but the cool part is that it wasn’t necessarily like he chose me because I had done software before. I was in his face saying, I want to do this, I want to do this. No, it was that he was very strategic in making sure he had the right work ethic and personalities to carry it through. So really kind of think beyond that first person that comes to your mind and what other person could kind of round it out to help them carry it forward.

00:43:54:20 – 00:44:14:19
Logan
Yeah. I think that’s, that’s super scary. I never thought about that of there’s this, Patrick onesie and he’s like the big, you know, business author. He has this, working genius. Have you ever heard of that before, Hannah. Yeah, yeah. So it’s like the same idea with, like, widget, where you’ve got the people that like, it’s an acronym, but basically you have the Wanderers who are always going.

00:44:14:21 – 00:44:30:13
Logan
Is there a better way? Could we do it in a better way? And you’re like, well, I’m sure we could. What do you think? And they’re like, oh no, no, I don’t know. I’m just asking if what you do and it works its way to like they wonder then you have the AI is the invention, then you have the is so it’s the different personality types.

00:44:30:13 – 00:44:47:10
Logan
And basically he talks about you need to have the people, you know, within a, a team, the people that all the way at the beginning or going from there just trying to think through, could we do things a better way to the people that also that aren’t going to galvanize a team and get everybody involved to the people that have that tenacity to finish the project?

00:44:47:13 – 00:45:05:24
Logan
So basically you have every end of a project because I’m very much like you and I’m so good, like starting in and we should do this and we should do that. And then in 90 days, I want to move off to the next thing. And I just left the whole team in the dust going, well, hey, I’m the one that went out and found Clickup you guys need to implement.

00:45:05:24 – 00:45:30:00
Logan
And then, in 90 days, I’m like, actually, I found a better one than Clickup. What about the. And they’re just like, dude, stop. So I love that approach of like almost having those people that are like really good at, you know, thinking through how do we apply the problems on the job site, you know, that a software could help us out with all the way down to now, who’s going to make sure that we’re consistently, you know, doing the daily logs?

00:45:30:00 – 00:45:42:18
Logan
Like it’s great to to say we need to do daily logs to help out our PMS to make sure that they’re, you know, communicate with clients. But if the PM is now like, nah, I’m not doing that, what’s the point? So that’s super smart.

00:45:42:25 – 00:46:02:00
Anna
Yeah. You know, and I want to take this one step further. Logan. I’m sorry, I might derail for just a moment. No. Go ahead. For those of you who don’t have employees as much, but end up working with a lot of subcontractors, that is another thing to really think through is how can you engage a few of your key subcontractors in the software implementation process?

00:46:02:00 – 00:46:22:29
Anna
Some of you were like, what? Why would I do that? But honestly, it would help so much because then you can understand what their pain points are with submitting bids and sending you up their bills and, getting paid out and all of that. And so then you can kind of have them along the journey with you, and then your subs are going to have higher engagement with a new tool.

00:46:23:04 – 00:46:46:21
Anna
Hopefully your tool is going to allow you to more effectively communicate with your subcontractors and everyone involved in the project. And so I’m getting them involved as well is going to be really key. I have seen, actually it started with one of our users and then it grew to more users where, they actually have these subcontractor breakfasts every two weeks with their sub.

00:46:46:24 – 00:47:06:07
Anna
And during those subcontractor breakfasts, they make sure that they train them on something and chat, and they give them breakfast. They then talk about the projects, they talk about their standards. They they talk about safety, you know, all of the important topics. But they make sure that job is included in there, and they give incentives for their subs to use job tread.

00:47:06:13 – 00:47:24:21
Anna
And they say, hey, if you submit daily logs or if you submit photos to us for, full month or throughout this project, we’re going to give you an added bonus as well. And so really kind of think beyond just employees and how you can engage your subcontractors and even your customers in the process to.

00:47:24:23 – 00:47:54:15
Logan
So let’s let’s jump into the idea of the incentives, because you brought up a couple times and I know, reading, you know, more about like sales management and stuff, like basically how you set up, you know, commission structure and incentive structures. That’s basically what, like a sales team is then going to go after. So if you’re really trying to push for, I don’t know, subscription in sales, you then need to make sure that the sales team is aligned with, okay, we’re going to really, you know, want to sell subscription sales because this is how it benefits us.

00:47:54:18 – 00:48:21:00
Logan
Can you talk more about like examples of incentives? Whether it’s, you know, like I love the idea of like the daily logs, you’re going to get this. Are we talking about, hey, if you do daily logs for a month, we’re going to pay you ten grand. Is it 500 bucks? Like, is it more about the actual incentive or like like the dollar amount or whatever it is, or is it more about just like, hey, you got like you did the thing, you’re getting some like a really nice sticker, if you will.

00:48:21:00 – 00:48:25:12
Logan
And it’s a sense of pride, I guess. How do you how do you drive that change with incentives?

00:48:25:12 – 00:48:46:21
Anna
Yeah. Great question. I’d also like to kind of bring forth this balance of accountability and incentives, right. Where you are. You are a leader. Accountability is part of it. You know, you can ask for software to add a ton of requirements in there for your team to to complete XYZ. And and that’s great. But ultimately, as a leader, you also have to hold your team accountable.

00:48:46:21 – 00:49:10:29
Anna
So there are some measures where it’s like, nope, you’re not going to get paid unless you do x, y, z and and that’s accountability. And I think that that’s a really strong and healthy and provide structure for your employees. But then there’s that added benefit of incentives that you can use to sweeten the deal. And so, think about what you have to what you want to hold your team accountable to so that that is bare minimum, that is your job.

00:49:10:29 – 00:49:30:12
Anna
But if you do extra now we’re going to give you some incentives for that. And so you have to kind of identify what goes where. Right. That’s a start. Now with the incentives they can be whatever the heck you want. And so tune in to your team. What’s important to them. Maybe money’s not important to them okay then that makes sense.

00:49:30:12 – 00:49:49:20
Anna
Don’t give them money. Instead, say, hey, I’m going to bring you out to lunch. Whoever submits the most photos this month, you get to go to lunch with me. Maybe they just want time with you that would be really cool. I love having time with our CEO because then I get to hear his thoughts and I. He gets to hear me, right?

00:49:49:23 – 00:50:21:21
Anna
But then other the drivers could be, you know, just recognition for people. And so saying, hey, they were the top salesperson or they were the they had the highest level of communication with their clients throughout a project. That is really helpful recognition to have during meetings. But also I would say that you should be paying based on merit, and you also should be providing more responsibilities and added positions like position elevations for people based on merit.

00:50:21:21 – 00:50:46:27
Anna
And so, take all of these into account when they do great things, write it down, make sure that they know that you saw that. And then recognize them for it by giving them a pay bump, or also by promoting them or giving them added responsibility with a payment in your in the organization. I also really like to reward people by, showing them that I trust them more.

00:50:47:00 – 00:51:06:11
Anna
And so, hey, if you complete XYZ or if you’re the highest sales person or something, then we can, you get more access to me. We can. Then I want you to be a driver in your department. So I want to hear from you more. And I want to hear your thoughts. And I want you to be a part of these decisions.

00:51:06:13 – 00:51:13:18
Anna
And so I really like the idea of engaging people more in company decisions when they are showing up more.

00:51:13:21 – 00:51:31:23
Logan
When when it comes to this idea of like, you know, really driving home the fact like, I love the accountability versus the incentives of like look like I remember like when I first started Cgtn, the team kept showing up late and I was like, how do we how do we get here on time? And it was like, well, what if everybody is on time for a whole week?

00:51:31:23 – 00:51:50:15
Logan
Everybody gets like 50 bucks extra? And I was like, this is your job. Like, I’m not doing that. Like, that is like the bare minimum is to show up on time. I was trying to be nice to ask what we need to do, but ultimately, you know, if we can’t show up, there’s no need to be here. So is this like is the the incentives versus the accountability?

00:51:50:15 – 00:52:11:11
Logan
Do we measure from what you’ve seen a lot of people that just like maybe they don’t have those standards set with their subs. So now they’re almost trying to backtrack the fact that they have a lack of accountability with incentives. And ultimately, if the sub doesn’t do what they want them to do, it’s like, well, I just, you know, just don’t give me the extra money, that’s fine.

00:52:11:18 – 00:52:28:11
Logan
But they’re actually falling short on the accountability pieces, I guess, like, how do you approach that if you’re like the owner really trying to get your subs bought into a software as well because you can’t control them? I mean, I guess you can stop working with them, but like they’re a 1099.

00:52:28:14 – 00:52:54:09
Anna
Great question. So a couple thoughts on that. I, I would say that it, it should be a bare minimum. You’re showing up on time and if you’re not we’re not working with you. You know. And I highly encourage you to be rating your vendors. So in job tread you can set up custom fields where you can choose a set up, a rating system for all of your subcontractors and show them the rating system.

00:52:54:09 – 00:53:14:04
Anna
Show yourselves. Don’t show them what rating they have right now. I mean, you can say everybody starts at a five, you know, that’s great. But, show them that you have a rating system and say, hey, if we reduce this number, we’re not reaching out to you first. You know, we’re only going to reach out to our five star vendors first for any future projects.

00:53:14:12 – 00:53:37:29
Anna
And if they’re not available, then we’ll reach out to the four stars and the three stars so that you’re very transparent with how you are going to prioritize, your outreach to the sub, and they’re opportunities to work with you. And that way they will know, oh my gosh. Yeah, they’re tracking it, you know, often. So this kind of anyone, even employees, anyone will kind of slide by if they don’t think someone’s going to notice.

00:53:37:29 – 00:54:05:14
Anna
But if you’re showing them, hey, we have a system to not only notice this, but to track it, then it’s going to help them hold themselves more accountable. It’s really difficult to hold yourself accountable if you’re leading a company and you have 20,000 other priorities happening. But if they know that, that’s going to reduce their chances of getting more jobs in the future with a reputable company, then it will only benefit you to show them that transparency.

00:54:05:16 – 00:54:28:02
Logan
It’s so funny because as you’re explaining this, I’m thinking, like, I remember in fifth grade, what our teacher did was everybody had like, like on a bulletin board every single day that you did everything you were supposed to do as a fifth grader. You got like a green card. And then if you got if you did something that you weren’t supposed to do, that wasn’t that egregious for the day, you got like a yellow card.

00:54:28:02 – 00:54:50:04
Logan
And then if it was something really bad, you got a red card. And basically at the end of every single month, what would happen is they would then tally up, you know, what you had and all the kids that had, you know, no red cards and less than three yellow cards would then get the end of the month incentive, which could be, I don’t know, you got to have like an extra hour recess or something like that.

00:54:50:04 – 00:55:10:27
Logan
And because it was live on the bulletin board and you could see at any point how many green cards, how many yellow cards, or how many red cards you know, each person, including yourself in the class, had it was very much like, should I do this thing? I know, like, you know, I’ve got ADHD and I can’t sit down, but I don’t want to have a yellow card for the day if I stand up and I’m not supposed to.

00:55:10:28 – 00:55:37:02
Logan
So like, right, the more that you’re like explaining these behaviors, the more it’s really like the stuff that we were taught when we were like 11. It’s shifted a little bit where it’s the rating system, but it’s live where potentially, you know, the subs could see, hey, if Logan wants to go out and find, you know, like the tile sub, like right now, I got a 4.8, which I think is good, but he’s got two other people that are, you know, a five with more job.

00:55:37:04 – 00:55:41:15
Logan
Like that’s a great way to do it. So it’s like competition to a certain extent. So yeah.

00:55:41:18 – 00:56:10:14
Anna
Really and competition friendly competition drives people, right? Yeah. And we have dashboards all over the job head office showing our productivity, showing our metrics. And, and we have our faces attached to them. And there’s a reason for that. We have the new dashboards feature on job tried with thresholds that you can set up so that your sales team members can see their sales compared to others, or your project managers can see the baseline variance on their schedules compared to others.

00:56:10:14 – 00:56:33:11
Anna
You know, it’s it’s helpful. They can be driving factors. Another incentive that just popped to my mind is giving someone a half day hey, or a full day off. If you are the person that wins this month for keeping your schedule on track, you know throughout the project the most, then you get a half day, or you get a day off this next month and just kind of plan it into your resource management.

00:56:33:11 – 00:56:49:21
Anna
That’s something that won’t cost you a ton in the long run, but ultimately could really kind of drive the incentive there. So friendly competition I think is fantastic as long as you do it right and that you’re not pinning people against each other, but more so that you’re recognizing positive efforts.

00:56:49:24 – 00:57:00:08
Logan
Sure. And last question, what is something that we haven’t talked about yet that you love, that you could nerd out over relating to software and human behavior?

00:57:00:10 – 00:57:21:09
Anna
Oh my goodness. I mean, I have over 100 pages on it, but I it was so funny when I first wrote the book, it was over 300 pages and I’m like, no one who I want to talk to with this book is going to have time to just read this. So I got it down to just over 100, just to give you like the real deal here.

00:57:21:11 – 00:57:45:21
Anna
But the biggest thing that I think that, I really want to heart harp on and drive home is, a software isn’t going to solve your problems. A software is just going to be supporting what you have built. And so really know what you have built. And, and then come after a software with, some understanding of what you built, but also approach it with a little bit of an open mind.

00:57:45:24 – 00:58:11:01
Anna
There’s a lot of great minds that build software systems, and the good software systems should be flexible enough to meet your needs, but also should be driving best practices forward. And so approaching a new software system, as you know, we have our, you know, mapped out process here that works for us. But also with that open mind of we can still improve our processes.

00:58:11:01 – 00:58:36:02
Anna
So don’t be too rigid and learn from the software itself. It can really create this beautiful balance where you are ready to support what you’ve got, but you’re also ready to grow. And sustainability is key in an organization you want to be, to have your organization be sustainable beyond you. And so putting those processes in place and getting it software, a system that truly supports what you need, is really, really great.

00:58:36:02 – 00:58:40:06
Anna
But also it should be driving you forward so that it can grow past you.

00:58:40:08 – 00:58:45:00
Logan
Love it. And if people want to read your book, can they get it on Amazon? I guess. How do they get it?

00:58:45:06 – 00:58:57:27
Anna
Yeah, you can definitely get it on Amazon. It’s called adapt to adopt. Human approach to software implementation. And so if you just look that up on Amazon, you’ll find it and you’ll get a copy mailed to you once you get it works well.

00:58:57:27 – 00:59:06:16
Logan
And I appreciate you coming on here and talking all about the human behavior side with software. Yeah. If they want to learn more about job tread, this is a job tried.com. Easy enough.

00:59:06:16 – 00:59:20:24
Anna
Yep. Job.com. And we have tons of resources on there. You can also like I mentioned earlier check out our YouTube channel. We have over 400 videos on our YouTube channel. And you can see job trend in action but also hear from a lot of our users, first hand.

00:59:20:27 – 00:59:22:22
Logan
Perfect. And thank you very much. This was awesome.

00:59:22:22 – 00:59:24:02
Anna
Thank you. So glad to be here.

00:59:24:08 – 00:59:48:08
Logan
All right. There’s the episode. That was super cool. What I really like is the level of how she provides some conceptual pieces of like, hey, we need to have a champion here, but also some tactical pieces like the incentives. And if we’re going to have a champion, maybe it’s not one person is a champion, but maybe it’s a small team of champions that kind of span the different, levels of how they approach a project, whether they’re a starter or closure, whatever that is.

00:59:48:08 – 01:00:14:08
Logan
So awesome episode. I really appreciate Anna coming on next week. We actually have an interview with one of our own internal SEO specialist, Patrick, and he’s going to be talking all through the fundamentals of SEO. Everything is shifting. It’s a crazy time in the world of Google, as you probably know, but we’re talking through some of the basics of SEO, but also, if you are hiring an agency or a company to do SEO, what should you be looking for?

01:00:14:08 – 01:00:37:18
Logan
What should they be showing you? Should it be leads day one, or should it be more of like hey, here are some leading indicators that build into it. So Patrick, who’s been doing SEO since 2013, so 12 years now, he’s going to walk through all things SEO. So you know what actually works and what doesn’t work in the world of SEO.