How NS Builders Built A Massive Following While Building Luxury Homes

Logan Shinholser
Hey everyone. Welcome back to the Contractor Growth Network podcast. I’m Logan Shinholser and today I’m joined by Nick Schiffer, the owner and founder of NS Builders. NS Builders is a premier high end homebuilding remodeling firm up in Boston area. And the way that we got connected was we actually had a lot of our clients that when we asked them, who do you want to look like online? They said, I want to be the next NS builders of my area. NS has over 300,000 followers across all their platforms and they absolutely crush it when it comes to branding. In fact, their brand is so good that we have actually done a brand breakdown on NS Builders on our YouTube channel. So if that doesn’t get you excited for this podcast, I don’t know what will. But without further ado, let’s jump in.

Logan Shinholser
All right, Nick, kicking off. Do me a favor. For those that may not know that’s listening in, give us the backstory of who is Nick Schiffer and the story of NS Builders.

Nick Schiffer
Yeah, man. So my name is Nick Schiffer. I own a company called NS Builders here in Boston, Massachusetts. We are a custom home builder. We are really focused on intentional design driven, architecturally driven homes and renovations. And I’ve been in business a little over 10 years now and since the inception of NS Builders, I’ve kind of spidered into these other brands such as Materia, Millwork, Modern, Craftsman, Podcast, Motif Media, and then of course the personal brand side. But yeah, at the core of it, I’m a home builder.

Logan Shinholser
So you made a statement there with the intentionality. So that’s something that you’re huge on is intentionality and craftsmanship. So can you talk a bit about what does that mean and how did you like come upon that being the thing that Nick and NS Builder stands for?

Nick Schiffer
Yeah, for sure. Let me start with the second part of that question actually came kind of in a way where I, I was just using that word constantly in video and social media that people just started, you know, ragging on me for it. And I realized, no, but this is who I am. Like, everything I do has to be intentional. Every, every moment has to be intentional. So what it means is really that all of our decisions are really intentional. And where it stemmed from was a lot of the details in the moment within construction. And there was, you know, even to this day, you know, I was on site the other with my super and my operations manager and were working through this detail on something that wasn’t flushed out in the drawings. And I’m sitting there and they’re looking at me.

Nick Schiffer
And, you know, Julian, who’s my operations manager, he’s like, I know his wheels are turning right now, and I’m. And I’m just like picturing how everything kind of comes together. And a lot of times, you know, my decision comes from what it will look like in a photo. And I know that sounds ridiculous, but those are, you know, that’s where, you know, that’s like the, that’s when the job’s done, right? Like, you get it professionally photographed. Like, here’s my, you know, here’s what I get to hang on the wall. So I try to think about that or how someone experiences a space. And I’ll give you a specific example. We have these floor, you know, wood floor to tile transitions.

Nick Schiffer
And, you know, if you have other contractors that listen to this podcast, of course, and typically you’re making that transition directly underneath the middle of the door slab, which I agree, like, that has been our, you know, the way we’ve done it for a very long time. But when I was sitting there, they’re like, well, why don’t you want to? Like, they could tell that I didn’t want to do it that way. And I was like, hear me out. This door is going to live in the open position 99% of the time. And when you’re walking down the hallway and your eye catches that wood floor to tile transition, I want that to be more intentional. And, you know, then I’m trying to explain why. But what ultimately ended up changing is I move the wood floor transition or I didn’t.

Nick Schiffer
We discussed and decided that we would move the wood floor transition so that the tile to wood floor would line up with the exact edge of the door jamb. And it’s a small move, but in the way I described it on site is like, I don’t want my eyes to trip over a detail that is seemingly not thought through. Where it’s like, if we just think that through and think about how it will be experienced. And that’s a very minor detail, but that is, that’s how my brain works. And so everything from those kind of details to the way our brand looks like on clothing, the way our brand, you know, the way we represent ourselves in a bid proposal, like, all of that has to be really intentional.

Nick Schiffer
And since it became this buzzword that I kept using and then I got all this flack for it, now we just have, you Know, it’s one of our core values and we just, we’re running with it.

Logan Shinholser
And is that idea of thinking through how is this going to look in photos? Is that something that’s just you to a core and you either have it or you don’t. Or is that something that can be learned in your opinion?

Nick Schiffer
I think it can be learned. You know, I’ve always, I’m someone that will do something, learn a tremendous amount from it, and then want to redo it again because it’s, you know, I’ve learned so much and I’ve told this story before, but I want to. Was building a. Or I still am, I’m building this pickup truck and I took it apart, restore, you know, was putting it back together. And as I was putting it back together, I learned about chassis building. So I took it apart, rebuilt part of the chassis, put it back together again. And then I learned so much doing that I realized I could build it better. So I took it apart and I’ve done that five times now.

Nick Schiffer
And it’s just this, like this never ending, you know, or this ever moving goalpost essentially, where I’m just constantly pushing the goalposts further and further away because I want it to better and better. But I think that when I say it can be learned, I think that especially in design and construction, you know, with social media, the last decade has really opened my eyes to a lot in a very short amount of time, which has given me the opportunity to learn about more intentional design and more intentional detail. And I think that, you know, when you’re exposed to more and you’re exposed to the why versus the how, you start realizing that there’s more to executing something than just this is how you do it.

Nick Schiffer
And then when you start understanding this is why you do it this way, it kind of starts peeling back the layers of, you know, how you approach something.

Logan Shinholser
So with that, I mean, your, the projects you work on, they are, for lack of a better word, really high end. Did that. Was it always like that where you’re. No, because everybody says everybody wants to come in and do, hey, I don’t want you to do a kitchen. Less is 300 grand or up. But I’m like, we’re just starting here as a business. So what came first? Like the really high end work or the content? I’m trying to figure out the chicken or the egg here for you.

Nick Schiffer
The content for sure. Yeah, no doubt. We. We started filming and creating content really early on in the business. And for a long time, I mean, I was doing, you know, if you look on my Instagram, you’ll see, like, hashtag nsbuilder NSB. Like 255, meaning project number 255. That’s a lot of projects. But, you know, I went back one day and counted all of the projects to see, like, what number we had and figured we’d just start there. But some of Those projects were 400 floating shelves hanging in someone’s bathroom. And. And I would take everything because. And. But I wasn’t promote. Like, I wasn’t sharing it as, like, hey, I’m the floating shelf guy. Hey, I’m the. The small bathroom guy. I was always trying to tell the bigger. The bigger story.

Nick Schiffer
And there’s, you know, a couple projects in particular that had very tight budgets. I was, you know, more of an owner operator, had a couple guys at the time. So I got real scrappy with any. I basically took what profit I needed to live and survive and. And then took everything else and threw it back into the project. And. And kind of, if you think about it as a ladder, you know, If I’m doing $100,000 project and I had an extra 10 grand, you know, in potential profit, I would make that $110,000 project, and I would then market it as, you know, $120,000 project and then. And slowly creep up. So the projects were always built, you know, at a higher level than what maybe they. I don’t want to say deserve, but we’ll use that as an example, like, deserved financially and.

Nick Schiffer
And then so I could continue to work my way up the ladder. And I did that through really good. You know, I would say good at the time, but decent storytelling through the content and social media.

Logan Shinholser
So how has that idea of, like, the storytelling and then back to that word of intentionality, how has that really impacted the brand holistically?

Nick Schiffer
Oh, man. I mean, it’s been what has allowed me to be where I am today. You know, about four years ago, I think maybe it was three years ago, I got asked to bid a project. And if you listen to any of the stuff I talk from a business perspective, I don’t bid a lot of work because I want people to want to work with me. But it was a really good architect, really cool project. And they had a discovery day where they would bring the builders to the job site, walk them through. Walk them through the plans, answer questions, and then the builders would disperse and go price the project. And when I got there and I looked around at who was there, these guys have been in business for 40 plus years.

Nick Schiffer
Have, have a deep portfolio of projects that lived up to the expectation of what this project could be. And I didn’t like at all. And I was invited to the table and it was, I remember in that moment I was like, this is what I’ve been reaching for. It’s like I just wanted to be con. At least considered. And now of course, like now the whole goal is like you got to, we didn’t end up getting the job. But the point was, is that I was creating such a brand around who were that people were beginning to trust who were and trust our process. And ultimately that’s led to some amazing projects. You know, most recently, you know, this is semi related, but most recently we had a client reach out, wants to build a second home.

Nick Schiffer
You know, met they came and looked at one of our projects. You know, they had, it’s in a different area than we typically work. They asked if we would work in that area and they said if you say yes, then we’re not even going to talk to anyone else because you were, you’re our first choice. And that was based on brand. And what was the most interesting part of that is he was like, you probably don’t know this, but I actually called you five years ago and we wanted you to build our primary home. And at the time we just, it didn’t make sense financially. We’re in a different position in our life today, but at the time it didn’t make sense financially.

Nick Schiffer
And I was like, so for five years you’ve been following our content and you’ve built this trust with me that here I am five years later and you don’t even call anyone else and you call me and say, hey, I want to build our second home now and I want. And you’re our number one choice because they’ve built this level of trust over the last five years, which is super cool.

Logan Shinholser
And what do you think it is about like the content that you’re putting out that allows you to stand out. I know we talked about like showing what it could look like in a magazine or in photos, but I know a lot of the clients that we work with, they’re really focused on when you work with me, you’re going to get a company that’s going to do and actually execute on what they said they’re going to execute and that in their minds, like their unique selling proposition, are you doing that and only that, or do you have like a different branch strategy? And that’s what allows somebody to go, I’ve been following you for five years. I’m ready to go.

Nick Schiffer
It’s funny that you say that. Like, think about what you just said. Hey, my unique, you know, proposition is that I’ll do exactly what I say I’ll do first. What verse lie to you? Like, that’s, that’s what differentiates, you know, me from the other guy. And unfortunately it’s. There’s some truth to that. You know, the number one thing this is actually unrelated to content. Actually the number one thing that we found in our surveys and talking to, you know, current clients, past clients, future clients, they all had this, you know, we would ask like, what is the biggest issue with doing a project, doing a renovation, a build? And usually it was budget or schedule, right? It’s like, oh, it’s over budget or it’s behind schedule.

Nick Schiffer
And we would dig into that response and realize, no, it wasn’t behind schedule is that we did a poor job communicating that the things that you added time to the schedule. That that’s on us. We didn’t communicate correctly. And then, you know, the over budget, it’s like, what was over budget? Oh, well, xyz. It’s like, well, no, you know, we didn’t do a good job communicating that those things that you added costed more money or that, you know, there was an allowance in there that, you know, we exhausted and it went above and beyond. So my point is that we realized that communication was the biggest issue is that, you know, communication style was just not, you know, it just wasn’t thorough enough for our industry. So we chose to focus heavily on the way we communicate.

Nick Schiffer
And that is from, you know, pre construction to even the sales part, it’s, you know, super thorough communication. In emails, the way we put our put together a proposal, it’s a thorough document that outlines the entire process. And then in construction, we have a process which, you know, the information is being communicated to the client in a, you know, in a particular manner on a regular basis. And we don’t slip. And when we slip, you know, we internally see the, you know, talk as a team and say, hey, that needs to be done. You got to catch back up and make sure that we’re upholding.

Nick Schiffer
Because that’s our, that is our promise, is that we’re going to be really good communicators and ultimately allow that, you know, the homeowner to be in the driver’s seat of the project because ultimately that’s what, you know, that’s what leads to that negative review or, oh, they’re behind budget or over, you know, I mean, over budget and behind schedule. It’s like, no, it’s just that we’re not, you know, we’re not effectively communicating to you these things and that’s going to hurt our reputation if we’re not good communicators.

Logan Shinholser
So with all that, I mean, has it always been very intentional around building a healthy business that’s doing the right things behind the scenes? Or was that kind of like once you started to get your name in the hat of like these high end projects, like what you were describing earlier with the architects, that’s when you realize, whoa, we really need to make sure that if we’re going to walk the walk or talk the talk, excuse me, now we’re actually going to walk the walk.

Nick Schiffer
I think this is going to be one of the more relatable things I’ll say here, just because the more people I talk to, the more I realize how common this is. But that was like I had pure imposter syndrome. Here I am promoting this brand, promoting this, you know, who we are and what we can do. And you know, and then people were asking about it and there were times where I just, I felt like I was just an imposter. It’s like, I haven’t executed on this, like, how am I going to do it? So I think that, you know, early on I just cut my teeth and did what I could to build the business.

Nick Schiffer
And when we started getting to the point of really selective work and the higher end work, you know, I realized that this isn’t going to work unless I get very serious with the people, the team and our processes. And I’m thankful to say that, you know, it was very timely that my team made a big change and we made some really great hires and those people have effectively helped us build the team and the processes that we need in order to compete. To fast forward today, I had a debrief on a proposal we sent out last week. We didn’t get the job. And I was like, hey, I want to know why. Walk me through what we did good and what we didn’t do good.

Nick Schiffer
We actually were, you know, the most appealing proposal, it was put together, the most professional, it was the best looking, most engaging. Everything was just like 10 out of 10. 10 out of 10. Everything was great. And it came down to the fact that were young, had a small team and hadn’t had experience in doing, working in the area that this house was going to be built. And, and that’s a, that was a fair assessment. I was like everything that we could control, we got perfect scores on. Everything that we can’t control is where we fell short. So, and unfortunately the things that we couldn’t, we can’t control were things that this particular client valued more. I don’t know. Did that answer your question?

Logan Shinholser
No. That’s great. I mean like, how do you then go back with like that information and do you do anything with it? Because I, I mean we talk a lot about what’s in your control, what’s out of your control. Like you can’t control the market, but you can influence how you are portraying yourself to the market. Like what do you then do with that information to your team?

Nick Schiffer
Man, we change every single time we do this, we change something, you know, for a long time. You know, our proposals were just, we would just review the budget and I spent 14 months shout out to my team at Slash Creative is a branding company I’ve been working with since I started my company. They are my brand guardian, but they’ve worked. I think it was 14 months with me on this book called Our Process. And it was a physical, hard, soft cover book that walked through the entire process of how we operate as if you were a client with examples of budgets and estimates and schedules. And we turned that into a digital PDF booklet as well. And that was something that we realized when we early on or, you know, two years ago, these bid proposals just weren’t engaging enough.

Nick Schiffer
And it was just us spewing information at a client and they were like, yeah, but how do you operate and what’s your team like and what’s your process like? And it was just this conversational thing where like sometimes I would be super thorough and sometimes I wouldn’t, and sometimes I would talk all about us and not ask the client about, you know, why they want to do the job. So to answer your question, it’s like I learned from that and we implemented that. And this particular call like that I got yesterday, you know, one of the things to be super specific was that the builder that they ended up choosing communicated in their proposal who the project team would be. Who’s the site super, who’s the pm. I didn’t have that. I didn’t have a site super and PM yet.

Nick Schiffer
The project wasn’t going to start for about 10 months. So when they asked who was going to be on the team, we said, you know, we have a project manager but we would like, this would likely be a position that we will hire for the super. And that was the immediate no, we want to know today, 10 months in advance who that site super is. So we talked internally about how do you navigate that and we realized that well, you know, instead of saying we don’t know or we don’t have that person, we could say hey, we do have a site super that could be on that job and we come to the table with them and the team and 10 months from now if things change, that’s fine.

Nick Schiffer
Like hey, we’ve decided that we’re going to shift to this super because it makes more sense. The client doesn’t matter, doesn’t care and what, but what it does in the, in that proposal phase is that it instills you know, confidence in their decision that hey, they have the right people in place now and it’s not going to be a 10 month, you know, hiring process and hope that they find someone that fits the mold. So what we learned from that.

Logan Shinholser
Sorry. Well, what’s funny about a lot of stuff that you talk about is NS Builders from the Outside is known for high end work, really good content. But what you’re talking about more so is it seems like a lot of your day to day and your overall role is like really the behind the scenes stuff like you’re not putting on social media. This is what happened with this proposal didn’t go well and this is how we discussed it as a team.

Nick Schiffer
Do you think I should.

Logan Shinholser
I think that’s a lot of the stuff. Well, candidly I think you’re doing, I mean amazing job of doing exactly what you’re supposed to be doing on the social side. But I think all the stuff that happens behind the scenes that’s all like the below the water level of like the iceberg of like what nobody’s actually seeing happen. So for you, what percentage of your time is focused at this point on you know, building the brand externally versus building the brand internally and making sure that the team is doing the things that need to happen to then let the external brand do its thing?

Nick Schiffer
That’s hard. That’s hard to answer. I would say, you know, most of my time is high level building the brand, building the business, bringing in, meeting with potential architects and potential clients. And you know, and then maybe less than 50% of my time is visiting the job sites, meeting with my guys, my trades, overseeing work, overseeing quality control and offering guidance and support. And in some of those finer details, I feel right now as though it’s a pretty good split. I’m probably a little heavy on some responsibility of some projects running. And that’s just a product of we have a particular project that is a spec for us, which is just a different structure. But you know, generally speaking, my time is primarily spent on the business. Business, not so much in the business.

Nick Schiffer
And yeah, I mean, to go back to what you said, like a lot of what I’m talking about is the, you know, behind the scenes stuff. And I asked you like, do you think I should share it? And I smirked because I know I should because I get a lot of great feedback when I do. And truthfully, it’s what people want, like art, my. It’s like, it’s what my peers want. It’s what I want out of my peers. You know, I want to talk to the builder that is building a hundred insane homes a year and I want to know, tell me what goes wrong, what’s your day like? How do you deal with this? How do you like when an issue comes up?

Nick Schiffer
Like, because that it’s, it’s relatable and it oddly adds encouragement to what were doing when you realize, you know, social media has done wonderful things for our industry, but it’s also done some terrible things in the sense of comparison. And I know some amazing builders I would never name that have a very different Persona online than they do in person. And that’s not them trying to be deceitful or be something that they’re not. It’s just a product of what they choose to share. And it’s, you know, there’s, you know, I’m not gonna share everything. I try to share as much as possible, even our mistakes, but I’m, but at the same time, I’m not going on a job site looking at that and be like, okay, don’t share that because you know, that’s not up to our standard. You know, that’s not the case.

Nick Schiffer
It’s just you get excited about the stuff you want to share and that’s why it ends up on social media. And when you’re excited and you share it, other people get excited, but other people look at it as, this is just the typical. And every inch in every corner is going to be like this. When that’s just not the case.

Logan Shinholser
So let’s go back to that. That. That 14 month, like our process book that was created. I mean, in your mind, you share this. Is that more for the NS builder’s brain that’s going direct to the homeowner? Oh, no. I see. Okay. How thick is it? I’m curious.

Nick Schiffer
It is. It’s way bigger than I thought, so.

Logan Shinholser
Oh, it’s not. Oh. I was just kind of thinking like, man, this must be like a long doc.

Nick Schiffer
But that’s like 100 picture book, 117 photo pages. So when I talk about intentionality, you know, this right here. So hold one sec. And I know, I don’t know if you post the video, but anyone that’s listening, I’m sharing all some of these books that I put together. Employee handbook. So we talk about intentionality. This employee handbook was a word document from my lawyer, and I sent it out. You know how many people read the word document? My lawyer?

Logan Shinholser
None.

Nick Schiffer
Yeah, I put it in a book like this. Nice suede cover. All the texts is brand specific. Nice big letters. When I handed this to every one of my employees, they. They put it in their hand and immediately flip through it. And now they didn’t read it word for word, but it became more engaging. So I was like, hey, why don’t we do the health and safety book and so on and so forth and all of these booklets, you know, become brand assets. But sorry, I cut you off when you were talking about the 14 month. No, no process book.

Logan Shinholser
It’s funny because, like, one of the things that you’re. You’re bringing up is like, that side of, like, how do you take something that’s informational, that’s not super sexy, to naturally go through and make it fun? So I know, like, I was sitting down and talking with one of the founders of BOA who was like a $60 million design build out of Northern Virginia, and they took their vivid vision doc and instead of just putting it into a. A Google Doc, they made it in the same format that like the Washingtonian magazine is. And I’m from, like, D.C. area. So as soon as he gave me an example of it, I immediately saw it and was like, wow, like, that’s so cool. Because it’s. It emulates something that I’m already comfortable with that I would naturally want to read.

Logan Shinholser
But it’s now the vision of the company, which typically not everybody sits down and goes, I can’t wait to see this thing. So you’re essentially taking form and Adding it to the function to make sure it’s actually getting consumed.

Nick Schiffer
Yeah, exactly. So every one of these documents, you know, I mean, it took. It takes a long time. I mean, I don’t know specifically how long, how many hours are into the employee handbook. But, but they didn’t write the book. They took a Word document and reformatted it to fit our brand. You know, change the fonts, change the header type. And it was super specific to them. Like, that’s a project that they go through. And what we did is we said, all right, this looks great, now let’s do it for everything. So, you know, we’re taking it. So any document that we have that is pages long is going, will be a booklet and everyone gets it. And, and they will have it.

Nick Schiffer
And then same thing with the clients is ultimately we’ll have an O and M that is printed and I will send it to the same print shop and say, hey, I want to print four copies. And we’re going to leave this booklet, you know, in the home rather than the random drawer in the kitchen that you throw all the manuals in that, you know, literally stay there as long as they don’t need that drawer. Drawer, it stays in there. Or maybe you’re more organized and you put together a three ring binder, which is amazing. It looks beautiful. It’s all tabbed. But the reality is it’s a three ring binder and they suck to flip through. So we’re like, let’s just make a sexy book that someone can pick up and flip through.

Nick Schiffer
And yeah, it might cost a thousand bucks, but at least it will be an asset that not only is functional, but feels good. And frankly, like, if this thing sit, if this says someone’s address and it’s sitting in their kitchen drawer and one of their friends comes over and goes to grab, you know, something out of the drawer and sees that, it’s like, what the hell is that? It’s like, oh, my builder made it for me. It’s, you know, it’s our operations manual for the house. It’s like, what? This is awesome. Let me, I gotta flip through this. It’s like, whoa. Did you know that your microwave needs to have a filter change every six months? It’s like, yeah, I did, but they’re flipping through it because it’s, it is like you said, it’s relatable. It’s a, it’s a booklet.

Nick Schiffer
It’s not this printed out, you know, computer paper. Three ring binder. It’s just, it’s. It’s something that is more. As ridiculous as it sounds, more fun to flip through.

Logan Shinholser
It looks like it like a magazine that you put on the coffee table that just like sits as part of like 100, the aesthetic of the room. And it’s funny because, like, most people, like, they look at that, and unless they’re in NS Builders, they probably go, well, that’s nice, because he’s got a big brand and a big company and he can afford to do that. But I mean, was it always like that for you? Where you’re like, well, once I build a thing, then I’ll have the nice booklets? Or did you say, you know what? We need these nice booklets to then be able to attract the type of clientele and the type of employees that we really want to be around?

Nick Schiffer
That’s a good question. I would say most decisions in my life, I make the decision to do it and then figure out how to afford it. So that. That wasn’t something that we looked at like, how much is this going to cost? Let’s figure out how to do it. It was more. Let’s just. So truthfully, like, slash is on retainer for me. So they have an allotted amount of hours that go into my brand. And that’s website. That’s like all of these things. So basically I just pitch them on these ideas, like, hey, I would love to put the health and safety guide, you know, into this booklet format. They’re like, yeah, we can pick away at that. So same thing with the R process book. That was. I mean, that was a labor of love.

Nick Schiffer
So many people were involved in putting that together and reading it and reviewing it, and everyone commented on it, but it was just something we picked away at over time. So, you know, it’s more of an investment in time. And if you can do it, you know, not have this, like, I have to have this done, you know, before I submit another proposal, which truthfully I’m kind of guilty of, where it’s like, when I want to do something, I want it done immediately. And I don’t even want to go through the process the other way again. But I’ve learned to have a little bit more patience. So it’s more just realizing the importance of it.

Logan Shinholser
And.

Nick Schiffer
Something you said I think is important to note. I’m not necessarily doing this, you know, putting together the. Our process book strictly because that’s how I attract clients. It’s part of the bigger marketing effort, you know, and I say that meaning, like, you know, for a long time, going back to social media, for a long time, I was anti publication. I was like, nope, I’m going to do everything on social media. I can prove everyone wrong. And in some way, sure I did. But in other ways, I realized now that, well, there’s some weight that still exists with publication. People validate builders based on publications and these awards that we all know, everyone pays for them, pays to enter, and, you know, like, there it’s, you know, it’s just, that’s the reality. But when a client sees it, they have a different viewpoint.

Nick Schiffer
And where I’m going with this is that ultimately it’s part like, you have to kind of do everything and you have to have all of these touch points in all of these different areas. So no matter where someone is seeing you, they see you in that one spot and then they. They’re able to pick you up here and see you in a magazine and then see you on social media. And then you meet them in person, and then they see, you know, and you bring this with them with you. And it’s like, man, like, this guy’s just got everything dialed in. And that’s what it comes down to is just being cohesive, you know, and intentional across everything that you’re doing and not just one thing.

Logan Shinholser
So really what you’re doing is you’re allowing them to put the pieces and connect the dots together to go, wow, this Nick guy, he doesn’t just kill it on social media. It’s across the board. It’s how he dresses, who he is in the community as well. Not just what is NS Builders like on Instagram when it comes to their types of projects that they’re doing?

Nick Schiffer
Yeah, it’s funny you say the dressing thing. So I’m big on branded clothing, and I give my guys a lot of flack. I give my guys a lot of flack when they’re not in brand. And two examples. One, we had an architect coming to visit the job site, and they wanted tour the job, and they show up, they get out of the car, and then my team comes out of the house that were building and everyone’s branded. And it was. It was almost as though the architect was so uncomfortable. He was like, you guys, this is crazy. You guys are all, like, stacked in gear. Like, everything says NS Builders. Black jackets, white, NS Builders. And it was like stormtrooper ish. And like, when he said that, it was like, he made my day. I was like, exactly like we’re professional.

Nick Schiffer
Like, we show up and we look the same. We have our uniform on and. And I really value that and those same jackets. One of my carpenters, I was on a job site and I’m like, dude, what’s up? He’s like, what do you mean? He goes, why don’t you have your jacket on? He goes, dude, I love that jacket. I’m like, but you’re not wearing it. He goes, I know. It’s not. It doesn’t really. It’s not a jacket I feel comfortable wearing on a job site because it’s. It’s a puffer jacket, and if I catch a nail coming around a corner, it’s going to rip. I’m like, oh, and this one doesn’t. He goes, no, this thing is, like, tear resistant. I’m like, who makes it? Tells me who makes it. I’m like, if it said NS Builders on it, would you wear it?

Nick Schiffer
Because. Yeah. I’m like, then I’ll just order those jackets with NS Builders on. He goes, oh, hell yeah. And he’s like, I only bought it because I didn’t want to damage the nice jacket you gave me. And that’s just, you know, I would rather do that. So he’s always got the right gear. Same thing with sweatshirts. Sweat. I will say for anyone that’s listening, Merch, T shirts, sweat. Like, all that stuff is such a pain in the ass because everyone has a different, you know, view on it. And I’ve had some guys where it’s like, our T shirt. I think our T shirts are one of the nicest T shirts that you can get. They’re made by harnish and they’re super comfortable. They fit really well. And I had one guy on our team was like, I won’t wear it. I’m like, why?

Nick Schiffer
He goes, I don’t like the. The makeup of the material. Like, I don’t know, it has too much cotton or something in it for him. And it’s like. I roll my eyes, but I’m like, okay, well, what do you want to wear? And he told me, like, I want this particular material. I’m like, fine, order those, and I’ll have those ones printed to match. And, you know, it was like a ridiculous request, but for me, it was more important that he had the right brand on than him not wearing the shirt at all. We.

Logan Shinholser
It’s fine. Like in college. So I was an athlete in college, and our coach would make all of us show up exact same uniform, and it wasn’t even like your like warm up jackets. It wasn’t, hey, some people zip it all the way up. Some people, like quarter zip. Like, it was to a point where, like, it had to be completely zipped all the way up. Everybody had to be fitted correctly. And I’ve carried that now through to here. So when we go out and do video shoots or when we go to conferences as a team, you know, somebody on my team will text to be like, hey, what are wearing tomorrow? Because then we all show up to the event wearing the exact same thing that’s all branded. And it just has like this, it’s this unit.

Logan Shinholser
So, you know, okay, CGN today is in orange shirts. So the orange shirts are all coming out and you know what to look for if you’re like an attendee or you’re a client or things like that. So it’s funny, we, you know, we talk a lot about like the small little things on the brand of like just wearing the uniform with the rest of the team. But, like, hearing you go to that nth degree of like, look, if you don’t want to wear it, that’s fine. It’s not like nine people are going to wear it, except. And one person’s not. You’re like, cool, I will make it all work. So everybody’s wearing it. There’s no excuses here.

Nick Schiffer
Yeah. And so, and I think there’s a lot of validity to that. And, you know, if you’ve ever listened to Jocko talk, he had this really great story about when his SEAL team approached him in the office and was like, hey, we don’t want to wear a uniform. We all have our own style. And, you know, Jocko has this great way of asking, you know, really discerning questions and basically convincing you that it’s your idea to wear the uniform. And ultimately he told that stormtrooper reference and he goes, wouldn’t it be badass if we rolled out of the Humvee and everyone had the same, you know, same uniform on and we look like a bunch of stormtroopers ready to kick some ass. And they were like, yeah, it would. He’s like, all right, so we’re wearing uniforms. Yeah, we are.

Nick Schiffer
It’s like, yeah, that’s the point. Like, we’re not, you know, we’re pros. Like, we’re gonna do this the right way.

Logan Shinholser
Love it. And just kind of piggybacking back onto the idea of social media and how you look when you. Because I’m sure you’re seeing a lot of companies out there now really starting to get onto social media. What are some things that you notice that they’re just doing wrong and they need to change?

Nick Schiffer
I don’t know if I really would consider people’s approach to social media as wrong. I think that, you know, I guess what I would say is that sometimes people spend too much time trying to build a Persona that they’re not. And you know, I think that, you know, think about who you want to be portrayed as and who you are and tell the story around that. And there’s, you know, one particular contractor I talked to years and years ago and he, you know, were chatting about, you know, that he’s more of a, you know, a comedic guy and, but on social media he tries to be super buttoned up and polished and, you know, doesn’t want his clients to know, you know, he’s kind of this jokester.

Nick Schiffer
And I was like, wouldn’t that be weird if they follow your social media for like years and think you’re this buttoned up guy and then you show up at the job site and you start a project and you’re just this complete clown, like, and not a clown in a bad way, by the way, like that. That’s weird. They would be like, oh, wow, you have a way different personality in person. Where, why not just play off that? Because you probably would attract a lot of people that would share that personality trait with you that would be fun to work around if they, if they get that you’re kind of a clown and they’re kind of a clown.

Nick Schiffer
Like, that’s probably a fun environment to be in rather than, you know, this guy, this kind of stuck up guy thinking that you’re going to show up all, you know, proper and then you try to joke around with him and he’s like, the hell man. Like, get it together. So I think that it’s just, you know, telling being yourself and telling the story, you know, in the light that, you know, is honest and guiding you to what your goal is.

Logan Shinholser
Awesome, man. And last question here. What tips or like a quick like 60 second lightning round would you have for the remodeler or home builder that is really trying to dial their brand in.

Nick Schiffer
Work? I mean, honestly work with a branding company. I think that, you know, we tend to try to, how do I say this? We try to do too much. We. Oh, we can, you know, we build houses. I don’t need a fancy website. I can build a website on Squarespace myself. It’s like, sure you can. It’s like, I don’t need to hire someone to put together my health and safety book. I can change the font and word and print it out on a fancy book myself. Sure you can. But if you have someone in place, that is what I would call your brand guardian and has developed the brand story and that’s the person that solely focuses on that and it can be a low dollar value commitment.

Nick Schiffer
Find someone that like, you spend a couple hundred bucks a month and they’re just there to help guide things like, hey, I want to print T shirts, do you mind doing a layout? Hey, I want to letter my truck. Do you mind doing a layout? And then you, over time, like 10 years, you’ve built this consistency. So it’s always, it’s cohesive and it’s always the same and it’s telling that story. So yeah, I think that if you’re considering building a brand 100%, you should be working with a company that specializes in that. Just like when you tell a client, hey, you should hire me to build your house instead of doing it yourself because I’m the pro, you’re not.

Logan Shinholser
And really the last question, do you think every home builder and remodeler out there should be building a brand or not?

Nick Schiffer
Depends on what their goal is. I think that it’s hard for me to say that. That’s like the question, like, do you think every builder should be on social media? It’s like, well, what’s your goal? Like, are you happy with the amount of work that you got coming in that are you trying to phase out then? Social media is not going to help you phase out unless you’re looking for someone to take it over and hoping to attract that person. If you’re looking to build market share and awareness of your company, then yeah, you should be spending time building a brand and promoting yourself through all form of media, but especially social media because of the barrier of entry.

Logan Shinholser
Awesome. Love it. Cool. If you want to see the breakdown of how NS Builders has built their brand online, we’re actually going to link in the show notes here a YouTube video that we did that shows the different facets of what Nick is doing to really make everything he’s talking about in this podcast come to life.