Answering Remodelers Top Photography Questions

Aaron Horner
How does one find a good remodeling photographer? And if you did find that good remodeling photographer, how could you make sure that you’re making the most out of those photos? What kind of prep work would you need to do in the space to make the best photography? What would you expect to be paying somebody like this? What kind of things would you need to communicate with your photographer to make sure you are getting the most out of it? We’re answering all of those questions today and we’re really going over all of the most common photography questions that we hear from our clients. So if you have any of these questions or you’re thinking it’s about time to up level the photography for your business, you. This is a great episode for you to check out. Hey guys, welcome back to the podcast.

Aaron Horner
I’m joined today by Luke. Luke, this is your first time on the podcast. Dude, welcome.

Luke Strappelli
Thanks, I’m super pumped.

Aaron Horner
Why don’t you give a little intro into yourself and your position here at CGN?

Luke Strappelli
Yeah, for sure. So I’ve been in client success for about five to six years, but at CGN I’m a client success manager and I cover 26 clients and I love working with all of them, so really love what I do. And on a personal note, I love getting outside.

Aaron Horner
Nice.

Luke Strappelli
I love music, so I play some piano, I sing a little bit dj, so I’m a lover of music. But I love helping people achieve their goals and I love being a servant leader and I think this role really is awesome for me to really expound upon that and show that to others. Nice, dude. Yeah.

Aaron Horner
Yeah. So we have Luke on the episode today to help kind of expand on the remodeler. You listening to this podcast, Luke? You’re going to kind of be the stand in for them in this conversation. You have a lot of conversations with your clients about photography and the problems they run into. We have a list of questions here, the most common questions. But at any point you feel like I’m not explaining things well enough or things like that, feel free to jump on in.

Luke Strappelli
Cool, do it.

Aaron Horner
I’ll be answering the questions. For those of you who don’t know, I mean, I’ve been on the podcast a lot, but for a few years we would travel around and do both videos, testimonials and photography for our clients. So I’ve done a lot of actual on location photography for remodeling clients as well as we’re preparing a very large video resource on a full photography guide. And so combined with Both the experience and then doing a lot of research into that. Today we’re going to be working on answering those most common questions.

Luke Strappelli
Yeah, I’m excited. I mean, obviously working with clients day in and day out and being on a couple calls a day. Like, you obviously talk about photos a ton. I know it. Our company knows the importance of photos and just how big of a sales tool they are for this industry. It’s a very visual cell business. So I know when I come across photos that make me feel something, it strikes a different nerve than just coming across like an iPhone photo. But I know my clients, they have a ton of questions about this. So I will sort of like role play as the client and give you my most commonly asked questions to myself.

Aaron Horner
Cool. Okay, let’s do it.

Luke Strappelli
Let’s get started. All right, cool. The first one I have is what separates a good photo from a bad one.

Aaron Horner
Yeah. So first off, I think a lot of people, like, almost everybody’s already getting photos of their work. There’s probably a spectrum of. You’re either getting quick photos on your phone or you have like somebody in your company who kind of does photos, or there’s somebody that, like a local friend who has a camera all the way up to. I’m actually spending a decent amount of money on photography. Maybe a few thousand dollars for a shoot. Something like that. I would say the main thing that separates all of those different things is like, obviously you have things like your image quality and things like that, but I think it can really be simplified down to the beauty of the photo. Like how beautiful does it make the space look and then the actual function of the photo as well.

Aaron Horner
Like, what does it tell somebody about this space? So, like, for example, like an establishing shot of a kitchen, like a wide shot of a kitchen or something like that. Like you just finished up the project. Like, the difference between a good photo and bad photo of that would be like, thinking about a good one would be a wide shot that shows kind of the beauty of the space. It’s well lit. It’s very intentionally, like all the furniture is intentionally placed. Maybe there’s like stuff in there that will help you think about the utility of the space. Like, maybe there’s a wine bottle on the island and then like a nice fresh loaf of bread with a, you know, cool looking cutting board in the corner. Like that kind of set dressing. But it’s very intentionally done.

Aaron Horner
Whereas a bad photo, oftentimes what we see is people that they just finished up the project. And even if they’ve gone through and cleaned it up. They haven’t gone through and intentionally set up the photo with furniture or really gone through that extra step to help somebody feel like they’re living in the photo.

Luke Strappelli
That’s the big thing I tell my clients. I say when you get photos, make it feel like someone’s actually living.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Luke Strappelli
Because most people envision themselves in that room or envision their family with like their games on the table or like a coffee mug, like, make it feel real to them. I know it resonates well with prospects as well. I mean, I’ve seen photos of my clients and like the room’s beautiful, don’t get me wrong, but there’s no life to it.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Luke Strappelli
I think honestly some of the best photos I’ve seen on clients websites are ones like close up of plants on like the table they made or like.

Aaron Horner
Sure.

Luke Strappelli
Like it has such an aesthetic and a feel to it, which ultimately, like, if someone feels that in your site, it’s great for like time on page, like engagement. But also they kind of see your brand as that or as like what they feel as well.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Luke Strappelli
If that makes sense.

Aaron Horner
No, no. Yeah, yeah. Like, I think the goal of the media, whether it’s photos of your work or videos of your work, is entirely to make it feel like, make it as easy as possible for someone to envision themselves in that space. Envision themselves using that space. The whole goal is to have them picture themselves in like the role of your client and be like, what would my life be like if I had that kitchen? What would actually change? What. How would I daily function in that space? Whether it’s a kitchen, an addition, a bathroom.

Luke Strappelli
Yeah.

Aaron Horner
Et cetera. Yeah.

Luke Strappelli
So tell me more about like, we know that quality is a big piece of it. Right. If you take a photo with like, say like a flip camera versus like an actual like DSLR camera. Like, tell me, besides the quality aspects, I think that’s the more apparent one. Tell me about like lighting. Tell me about, you know, we talk about like the whitewash that a real estate photographer does or the ultra wide angle. And like, tell me how interior design and remodeling, like, differs from that.

Aaron Horner
Yeah. So first thing to kind of think of is like thinking about the purpose of your photos and we’re talking about like making sure that it’s beautiful and that people can live in it. I think the main thing with this is investing in photography and photographers who really know how to capture the beauty of a space, like the aesthetics of it and those close up details. And they can do that through the various aspects of lighting or how they frame a shot. But what I really think it is it’s a real estate photographer, the most common kind of photographer that somebody’s going to get when they are looking to shoot interior photos. They’re much cheaper and they are primarily just going through to take photos of the space, make it look big, make it look bright and go through as efficiently as possible.

Aaron Horner
And so if you, I think like that works when you’re trying to sell a house, when you’re trying to make the space look big. But for what we’re doing, like what you were saying, like when you’re selling the feeling of the space, like these aren’t logical remodels that people are purchasing. It’s not a logical position or. Yeah, usually to redo your kitchen or your bathroom, it is purely based off emotion. So you need to have photography that helps sell that emotion as well.

Luke Strappelli
Yeah, it’s a good way to think about that.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Luke Strappelli
So that sounds great. But if I’m, you know, I need photos done, I need select amount of projects done in this amount of time. Like that’s obviously gonna cost me as a business owner. So.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Luke Strappelli
What are we looking at from your knowledge in this space, what is like the typical cost of this and how do they charge? Is it like hourly? Is it per project? Like, tell me more about that.

Aaron Horner
Yeah, so different photographers obviously do it differently from what I’ve seen. On average, if you’re getting a cheap real estate photographer, which I wouldn’t recommend, there are some locations where it’s like maybe you don’t have access to higher end photographers and this is what you have to work with. You have to do some more guidance and maybe we can talk about that later on, but that cheaper end of photographer is really going to be like 200 to like 600 ish for a shoot. Whereas when you get into like the high quality interior design photographers, the architectural photographers, a lot of times I think more often than not, from what I’ve seen, they’ll typically do a day rate because they’re spending a lot more time in the space. And they do that for a few reasons, mainly being the lighting.

Aaron Horner
Like one of the things you probably do not think about as a builder is one of the things that separates a good photo from a bad one is just where’s the sun at? Like when was the photo taken? Even in an interior shot, it can change a lot if the sun is coming right in through those windows and you get the cool sun lines in the spot, and it looks like it’s naturally lit or it’s overcast, or it’s morning time and the sun’s coming in at an unappealing angle. A lot of times they’ll do a day rate, especially if they’re shooting a whole home. So they can shoot each room at the time of day where it’s the best lighting for it.

Luke Strappelli
That’s cool.

Aaron Horner
Yeah. So those people will charge day rates, and that will be in the kind of like that $2,000 area. I’ve seen like 1,000. And then we had one of our own clients who they were quoted 4,000, and they’re like that sucks. Essentially. That’s pretty high. But that’s about the range you can typically expect.

Luke Strappelli
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it can be a decent amount. But I also think of it more as an investment. That’s why I tell my clients, I’m like, if you get insane, wonderful, beautiful, aesthetically pleasing photos that will pay you back with the actual project that you undertake that you can bring a client in from those photos. It’s like you’re. Your current project sells the next one. So if you can capture it well, it’s gonna pay you back later. Yeah, it’s kinda how I frame it. Yeah.

Aaron Horner
Like, I talk about this during that photography video, and it’s like a thing I’ve been thinking on. Cause it’s like you feel awkward at first when you’re telling people, like, well, spend more money. And it’s like, I find it’s helpful to tell people. It’s like, hey, by the way, I don’t have a deal with these photographers. I don’t get anything if you spend more money with your photography. I just know from a marketing perspective how important good photography is to the rest of your marketing portfolio. Like your website hinges on it. Any sort of direct mailers that you do hinge on it. Like, all of your social media comes from that, or at least a vast majority of it comes from your photos.

Aaron Horner
So if you have that bad foundation, you’re gonna have to pay for it in a lot of other ways to make up for that. It might possibly be the easiest and cheapest way to build trust with somebody is just by having a beautiful representation of. This is literally what I do. Like, you don’t have to take my word for it. You don’t have to. I don’t have to convince you with all these different things. I can just show you my work. So in that sense, that’s why I think it Is ultimately super, super worth it to invest more in your photography.

Luke Strappelli
Yeah, yeah. No, I agree. You talked about the lighting. So I had a question here and it kind of goes back to that point is why is a photographer shooting with the lights off?

Aaron Horner
Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. So curious. Yeah. Some people will ask that kind of stuff. Like especially so a real estate photographer is less likely to do this. So maybe we’ve had people that like, once they get into that higher realm of photography, one of the things that you probably have never noticed, but if you go back through, you will 100% see is that very, very often, almost always in the very high end Architectural Digest photos or photos that was kind of editorial photos, they will turn off all the interior lights and they will have the room be entirely lit or at least look like it’s entirely lit by natural light. Reason for this being, there’s a few different reasons. Like part of it can just look more appealing.

Aaron Horner
But really I think the most common reason is that there’s a typically a difference in color temperature from the natural light is coming very blue from the outside. And then you typically have competing warmer lights inside. And so having those mix of the two color temperatures actually is unnatural and it looks odd. And so one of the ways they do it is they just go ahead and turn those lights off and then just fill the room with natural lighting. And if they can’t, a lot of times what they will do is they will take a massive light. I’ve seen people literally stick them out windows with the diffuser and make it look like sunlight. And you wouldn’t know.

Luke Strappelli
Straight Truman show.

Aaron Horner
Yeah, yeah, 100%. Like, it’s the kind of stuff you wouldn’t know that’s a common practice just by looking at the photos because they do a good job at it. It looks natural, that’s cool. But it’s almost like all of this like you’re creating an idealized version of the photo. So I mean, like on that point, I think one of the things to note is like, maybe we can in a bit, I know there’s more questions about prepping with your photographer, things like that. But like, one of the things to note with lighting is if you specifically have like a lot of people want to highlight the under cabinet lighting they put in or specific accent lights or something that is 100% something that you need to make note of with your photographer.

Aaron Horner
Because depending on the photographer, they might just turn all that stuff off and be like, well, it looks unappealing. And there is, there are ways to shoot around it. And I’ve looked really researched into, like, different editing techniques that you can make it work with the different colored temperatures, but the photographer needs to know that beforehand, because if they don’t, they won’t shoot it correctly.

Luke Strappelli
Yeah.

Aaron Horner
So definitely just something to make note of with your photographer if that’s not what you’re looking for.

Luke Strappelli
No, it’s good. Yeah, I like that. So speaking about, we talked about a lot about the. A lot about the aesthetics of the environment, and we talked about lighting, how important that is. But I want to get into, like, staging. Yeah. So, like, putting in plants, like, making it feel like someone is living there, kind of envisioning yourself in that type of environment, whether it’s a kitchen or a bathroom, et cetera. But tell me about staging, like, whose job is it? And the power of it.

Aaron Horner
Yeah. So it depends. The most common answer is that it really relies back on you as the remodeler. Typically, best case scenario is you have your interior designer, the person who designed the space. They can also be in charge of staging if you outsource it. That’s definitely something to talk about with that outsourced design company about bringing somebody in for the staging. Like, honestly, Luke, I did not realize until I did this additional research and creating this video and looking at just brute force. I’ve looked at hundreds and hundreds, without exaggeration, remodeling photos and looked at them and tried to understand what makes the difference between one that you have an emotional response to. That you’re like, yes, this one’s good and this one’s bad. And you can kind of tell, but you don’t understand why it is.

Aaron Horner
And I was surprised to find out, like, I was literally doing research, trying to make a point about lighting and about composition. And so I changed those things on the photo. But then I realized it still looked decently solid. And really, the thing that makes the biggest difference is the staging, Having the right props and the right furniture that complements the space. First, I think first I just wanted to state that as, like, I don’t think you can under sell the importance of staging the space, especially if you’re getting, like, a photographer that is not as skilled. Like, it becomes even more important to have the space look as beautiful as possible. Like, going in, taking those preparations. Because it’s a podcast, I think it’d best.

Aaron Horner
I’ll put a link in the description to our full video version of this, and if you’re watching it on YouTube, we’ll have some visuals Here, so you can see it. But I think the main things is going through and thinking about what is the functionality of the space. That’s the easiest place, easiest way to set dress a room. Like, thinking about how. What’s an idealized version of you actually using this thing? So if it’s a bathtub having a towel draped over the edge, or if it’s a kitchen, you can have the wine glasses and the wine bottles there and the bread. Like, thinking about, like, well, if I was having, like, a nice fancy dinner party with guests, how would I want the space to look? What preparations would I make? That’s the kind of preparations that you want to take for your staging.

Aaron Horner
Like, even stuff like one of the examples I found when I was looking it up is, like, that I hadn’t thought about before is, like, a little thing, like, if you have a room, like a bedroom or something, and there’s an accent table next to the bed. Thinking about the fact that, like, well, your staging could include putting a book there and a reading light so then somebody can think like, oh, like, I could be sitting there reading my book before I went to bed. Something like that. Like, just little moments like that can do a lot to help kind of draw somebody into the photo and start to kind of, like, start their imagination more than if it was just an empty room.

Luke Strappelli
Yeah, yeah. One thing I’ll add, too, is, like, just make sure when you take the photo, like, the environment is clean. I’ve seen some photos where it’s like, it looks like someone’s living in it, but it’s not clean, it’s not organized. Like, that’s just not gonna do anything beneficial to your work. So I know it’s kind of an obvious thing, but I’ve seen it happen in photos before, so make sure it’s clean. Like, you can have bread on the table, but make sure you clean the crumbs. Like, little things like that. I know it might be pretty apparent to people, but.

Aaron Horner
Well, sometimes it’s just. You just miss it in the rush of, like, I’ve been on the shoots with the people, and it’s like, hey, we just want to get in, get out. Like, I think a lot of people feel guilty about getting the photos or being in the space and doing that kind of thing. But if you can set the right expectations with the clients at the very beginning of the process and be like, hey, this is what we’re gonna do. This is how long it’s gonna take, and you tell them, like, hey, they’ll Be in there four hours or something like that. Then you won’t be rushed to get all those little small details fixed or things like that.

Luke Strappelli
Yeah. And one thing I’ll also add is I think prospects are our clients. Clients. So the people who are getting remodels done, they associate the level of photography and the level of, like, the aesthetic they feel and the emotion they feel with the photos with the company itself. So, like, I always give the example of, like, if you show up in a truck and you show up with, like, a ripped shirt, obviously it’s a little dramatic. But if you show up like that, people are going to associate your level of craftsmanship and your.

Aaron Horner
Yeah, yeah.

Luke Strappelli
Effort level with those things. So, like, I think photos do the same thing, where if you have amazing photos, they’re gonna associate that with your brand. So just another reason to invest more into photos. Cause it is a very visual sell business. I really can’t stress that enough, so. But let’s go to the. Let’s go to the next question.

Aaron Horner
So before we leave.

Luke Strappelli
Sticking.

Aaron Horner
Yeah. I have one more thing.

Luke Strappelli
Okay, let’s do it.

Aaron Horner
I think another thing that I’ve seen a lot. And I struggle with it when I was doing photos at first is there will be oftentimes, like, if the homeowners have moved back in and they have their furniture and stuff there, you can’t be afraid to move out their stuff.

Luke Strappelli
Yeah. And be like, yeah, that’s a hard thing. Tell me about that. Because you want to get photos, you forget then someone’s moved in there, and they have a life there, and their kids are in there, and it’s like, all right, how do I get photos of it afterwards?

Aaron Horner
Yeah. So a lot of times I’ll have regrets about some of the first times I did projects where it was like, there was this beautiful kitchen renovation, but for whatever reason the homeowner decided to have, they had bright red accent. The toaster was bright red. The bowl that held the fruit was bright red. The thing that held all of their cooking utensils was bright red. And it looked awful in the space. Like, just horrible. And I remember them being there and they were asking, like, should we remove these? And I was like, nah, no, they’re good. I mean, they’re all matching. And I didn’t want to offend them because I was like, you know, I mean, like, well, you know, I think it could work. Cause they’re all red. And I was, like, legitimately trying to justify it to myself.

Luke Strappelli
And it looks horrible.

Aaron Horner
Yeah. And I got back and I looked at the photos. I’m like, you idiot. And I think it’s just having a conversation with them about creating broad appeal and just things that are kind of like an idealized version. The way that they’re using their kitchen is not wrong. But when you take these photos, a thing you can tell them is, we’re not actually creating what a real kitchen looks like. We’re creating the idealized kitchen that isn’t actually functional. And you actually shouldn’t set it up this way. But the only reason we would set it up this way is to take the photos. And then that can kind of help because it’s like most of the time, people don’t care. But it can just feel insulting to be like, your stuff is not good enough to take photos of.

Aaron Horner
I’m gonna move it out and bring in my own stuff. But 100%, it is worth doing. One of the things Logan was talking about with one of our clients was specifically they had like a coffee maker there, and it was just like a POD coffee machine. Like a very cheap Keurig thing. Yeah, like a Keurig. And then he was like, why don’t. In the future, I would just get yourself a nice espresso machine, like an actually nice one. And if you have very often people have a coffee bar or something like that, like an area for coffee, take out that cheap coffee maker and put in one of the very nice ones that’s beautiful and actually adds to the space. Have that as part of your staging kit, your set of props that you carry with you.

Aaron Horner
Because it’s very often that people want to have nice coffee in their kitchen. It wouldn’t be a one off thing. And so little things like that. There’s nothing wrong with having a coffee maker there that might be the one they use, but you could still put in one that looks better. And it’s an idealized version.

Luke Strappelli
Yeah.

Aaron Horner
So it’s all stuff like that.

Luke Strappelli
Something you made me think of too. And again, like, if you want to attract certain clients, like, put certain high quality products in your photos, like, I don’t know. I have an espresso machine myself. So, like, you know, I’ve gotten into that a little bit. I can’t say I’m too good, but no, my parents, we had the Keurig, like, growing up, and it’s fine, you know, does the job.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Luke Strappelli
But espresso, you know, takes it a little step further. A little bit more bougie, I would say. And I think when you have products like that, like, oh, we want those upper class clients that maybe have that again, status symbols, whatever you want to call it.

Aaron Horner
Well, just thinking about relating to the people that you’re targeting. Again, the photos are not for you. They are for your homeowners that you’re trying to serve. So just depending on who that is, putting props in there that align with their lifestyle. Like your ideal client. Yeah.

Luke Strappelli
Yeah, I just thought of that. Cool. So how do I make sure that the photographer gets the shots that I need? Talk to me about the different types. I know we have that longer video coming out of the different types of photos and what you want to tell your photographer to get. So tell me about the types of photos. But then also how do you make sure that actually happens when they get taken?

Aaron Horner
One of the main things that we haven’t touched on yet is that we kind of went through and found out we could categorize or group all the different types of photos that you need into really just five different categories of photos. There’s really only five types of photos that you need. The first is an establishing shot of the space. That could be just a wide shot of the kitchen or of the bathroom, but sometimes that it would include like maybe the exterior shot of the home. If you had like. One of the examples I give is one of our clients, Vought. He did this crazy home addition that was literally off the edge of a cliff. And so for that project, it made sense to go ahead and get a photo of the whole home, specifically of it.

Aaron Horner
Like, they got a drone shot of it. The drone’s off over the cliff. And you can see like the dramatic addition and all the supports that had to be added in to make that work. So you’re just thinking about that establishing shot. Basically a shot that gives context for the rest of the photos. It gives a place for everything else. Then after that, then you have your second category, which is really the photos that are there just for the sake of beauty, the design shots. So like you were talking about earlier, like the plant photos, like, that’s what this kind of photo is. It’s a photo that is purely just there to sell the emotion of the space. Like, it doesn’t have to highlight your craftsmanship. You know, it’s not something that you created. You know, it could just sell that feeling.

Aaron Horner
For the people hiring, like the interior design photographers, they will tend to get a lot of these first two categories. If you, if you are just working with like a real estate photographer, they’re generally just going to get Those establishing those wide room shots and they might get a few close ups here and there, but they’ll be not very tactfully done. So those are the two most common is like you have your wide room shot and then your what people call your close ups, the things that sell the emotion, the design of the space. Then from there we have the kind of the close up detail shot of your work. So this is a shot that like very distinct close ups of like the grout lines in your work or the particular spacing of the inset cabinets. Or maybe it’s the tiling.

Luke Strappelli
Yeah, backsplash.

Aaron Horner
Yeah. The kind of stuff that like, if you’re talking about craftsmanship of your work, then this would be the kind of photo that proves that craftsmanship. From there we can go into your feature shots. So these are ones that specifically just highlight just key features, not necessarily the craftsmanship. But like we talked about that coffee bar area, a shot that just shows off the coffee bar area or a shot that just shows off the cool hidden built in dishwasher that you created that looks just like a cabinet. Or you know, they’ll do the same thing oftentimes with the fridge. And you can see the fridge partially open. So you can see it is a fridge but it blends in seamlessly with the cabinetry. Those kinds of things that were important to the client that you can actually use later on.

Aaron Horner
And your key features on the website as here’s the things that they wanted. And I think best case scenario with those kinds of shots is that a future homeowner can look at it and be like, I did not consider having a built in dishwasher that way, but now that I’m seeing it in the space, I would like that. And then the last category we have the before after pairing, which that one is just making sure that you’re capturing photos before that match your after photos, making sure those angles align. When you do that, especially for us on the site, it makes it very easy. We can do like a slider or animation or that kind of stuff to show exactly. Here’s what the space looked like. Even better, here’s what our design rendering looked like of what it was going to be.

Aaron Horner
And here’s the after. Just showing that consistency across of like we had a very solid plan, we planned for it from the very beginning and it came out exactly like we wanted. Build up that trust with people. So those are your five types of categories and they can get a ton of different photos. Maybe 20 photos of the kitchen or Whatever. But like when it comes down to it’s going to be one of those five types. And so I think originally you were just asking how do you kind of plan that out with a photographer?

Luke Strappelli
Yeah. So how do you as the owner, business owner, how do you make sure they get the shots that you need?

Aaron Horner
Yeah. The first thing is thinking, either you or somebody knowledgeable about the project. This isn’t a thing to skimp on and be like, well, somebody will figure it out. You or really the project manager should go through and answer some questions about the project yourself just to be positive that you have clearly defined. I’ll put it in the show notes of this video, but I made a questionnaire for you to fill out. It’s just one page. It’s like seven questions, I think or something like that. And it’s really just questions to help you put down. Who was our client for this? What was the goal, the deeper reason behind why they wanted it? What were the key features that were important to them? What are important photos?

Aaron Horner
For example, like that drone shot of the addition, what are important photos that a photographer wouldn’t capture? Those kinds of things. I mean like what kind of stuff should they not capture? What kind of stuff? What was the scope of work? Maybe you didn’t do these cabinet addition that they put in after you guys were there and you’re like, I don’t want our name associated with those cabinets. But stuff like that, going through and filling out that form and then having that conversation with your photographer, either handing that to them or just bringing it with you and actually physically being on site with the photographer, I think that’s the biggest thing is making sure that you have transferred that.

Aaron Horner
Here is the utility of the photos, like here’s the deeper reason behind what they wanted it and here’s the deeper reason by why we want these photos. We want these photos of these key features to show on our site. So then when we have our feature project page, we can show, here’s the built in dishwasher and here’s a nice closeup of it. Not a wide shot where it’s included, but a specific closeup of these things going through and having that very clear direction with your photographer. Oftentimes what will happen is people will have direction that’s too vague and just because they haven’t thought through it and they’ll say like, well, I know we did a lot of custom carpentry in here, so we need close ups.

Aaron Horner
And so, and this literally happened to one of our clients, then they’ll tell the photographer, okay, I want close ups of this space. And then they got back their photos and it was literally close ups of things like the plant and the ping pong table, which those aren’t bad photos, but like, it’s worth making the distinction of. Dang it. That was a. Like, the photographer doesn’t often work for remodelers and so they aren’t making a distinction in their head between here’s a photo that’s showing off the super high quality of craftsmanship that they do. And here’s a close up of just a piece that sells the emotion of the space. Like, they’re just thinking like, hey, this is a beautiful photo. This is a beautiful photo. This is a beautiful photo. And it’s like, that’s good.

Aaron Horner
But remember back in the beginning, I said, it’s beautiful. And it has that function piece as well. So making sure you’re having those conversations with your photographer beforehand. And like I said, there’ll be a link to that in the show. Notes of this video.

Luke Strappelli
Yeah, there’s also a note in here about the prep sheet. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Aaron Horner
So that’s what I’m talking about. That’s the questions to go through with your photographer. Yeah, yeah.

Luke Strappelli
Awesome. So speaking of photographers, if, you know, if I’m in the middle of the US Maybe it’s a little less populated than the coast, or maybe I’m not in a big city. What if I can’t find a good photographer or an interior modeling photographer near me? Or if they’re just way too expensive or out of our budget.

Aaron Horner
Yeah, yeah.

Luke Strappelli
What do I do?

Aaron Horner
So, okay, like, let’s say we’ll start off with. Let’s say you can’t find one. First thing is let’s think of all the different ways to check. Obviously first, you’ve probably already done it. Googling for a photographer.

Luke Strappelli
Yeah.

Aaron Horner
Specifically I’d be looking for an architectural photographer or an interior design photographer. Okay. When I was doing research for this, I did find sometimes though, it was nice just to look up photographer because some people were then listed as like editorial photographer or something like that. And they were a good option, but they didn’t put themselves in either of those categories. But you’re looking for a photographer who’s specifically shooting interiors with a design focus. If that doesn’t really come up with anything, there are actually some listings. There’s like photographer groups, like business groups where they will go in and basically they’re vetted photographers who come in and say, like, hey, I’M a photographer looking for work. And then you can come in as somebody looking for a photographer. And I think it’s literally find a photographer dot com.

Aaron Horner
I’ll have links for that in the show notes as well. But I found a few different resources that you can go through. Put in your location, put in the type of photographer you’re looking for, and you can find photographers there. Yeah, I don’t think most people know about those, even though it’s as simple as find a photographer dot com. But those are good directories and it’s like often vetted photographers that you can trust. Now, I would still make sure you’re looking at their portfolio and making sure they have the kind of photos that you’re looking for. But that’s a good next step. And then beyond that, I would then say instead of looking for the photographers, look for the interior designers and the architects in your area.

Aaron Horner
Whether it’s on their website or on their social media, very often they will tag or give credit to the person who shot their photos. So even if it’s a photographer who’s not investing in their website, they’re not listed with one of these local groups. They’re primarily word of mouth. You could still then find them by finding people in your area who are doing those things and then looking for who’s shooting for them. If you do all of those and you get nothing, which I guess could happen in some of the more sparse areas, then I would. My next thing would still be going with a professional photographer. I think you’re much like. I would be very skeptical of a place that does not have a good professional photographer at all.

Aaron Horner
It just might be somebody that’s more of like a wedding photographer or a portrait photographer. Now you’re gonna have a lot more of a learning curve with that person. So there’s. Yeah, there’s risks there. I’m not saying that’s a perfect solution, but that’s when you can lean back into the resources that we’re creating. You can send them the video that will be in the link here of our full hour long. Here’s all the different photo types and how to prep for it and that kind of stuff. If you can find somebody that wants work and we have the resources to help explain exactly, here’s what I’m looking for, here’s what’s important, here’s the things I need for my marketing. You just have to go through and take that extra step with them. But I would say that’s the next thing.

Aaron Horner
And then typically the other thing that we found with people is they have found people. It just comes back to that point were talking about earlier where it’s too expensive, it feels too expensive or too much of a hassle. And to that I would just go back to like, I think this is the best way possibly to prove your worth to future clients.

Luke Strappelli
I also think it’s like you see it as an investment, more as an expense.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Luke Strappelli
Because you’re investing into the future projects that you’re going to do based on the photos you get now.

Aaron Horner
Yeah, exactly. And again, let’s say as long as you’re running any sort of marketing expense, in theory, it will make the rest of your marketing cheaper. Because if you’re running Google Ads to your website and you have people coming in and vetting you all the time, having better photos of your work will increase the conversion rates of all your different ad types and all your social media will be more compelling. So it’s like all those other things that you’re spending marketing money on will then become cheaper as a result.

Luke Strappelli
Yeah, yeah, that’s good. So getting more to the nitty gritty. We talked a lot about, like, what you should look for in a photographer and like, you know, the budget of one.

Aaron Horner
Yeah, yeah.

Luke Strappelli
You know, around my area. But just going to like the going back one step. How would you even like pick a photographer? You know, what would you look for? I know we just talked about it a little bit, but like, is there anything else that you would look for or kind of tell me you’re like your thought process.

Aaron Horner
Okay.

Luke Strappelli
Process.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Luke Strappelli
I mean, picking one, at least two or three, you know.

Aaron Horner
Yeah. Like, we kind of talked through like how to find them, but let’s say you found them and great. You’re in an area, you have four options.

Luke Strappelli
Which one?

Aaron Horner
Which one? I mean, obviously there’s gonna be price, but that, like, we’ll just put that to the side.

Luke Strappelli
Yeah.

Aaron Horner
The things I would be looking for primarily is their portfolio of work. You’re looking for essentially two different things. Like, you want to make sure they shoot the kind of photos that you want. And then ideally that’s their specialty. They aren’t shooting a lot of other kinds of photos that you don’t want. You want somebody who’s really specializing in your work. I’ve looked at a lot of photographer portfolios for this and there are like truly people that can do all these different styles and really nail them. But most often what happens is people get in photography through. They’ll do real estate to Start and those are kind of the lower end real estate photos. Like they’re just getting in. You have typically cheaper equipment, it’s lower cost of entry. The photos don’t need to be as nice.

Aaron Horner
Like the realtor just is kind of flipping houses quickly and just needs somebody that can do a lot of high volume work. And so you’ll get a lot of those kind of photographers who start like that and then they realize, well, if I got into this interior design, I would have to land less people, I could charge more for my work, that kind of stuff. And so you’ll get a lot of people that will be doing real estate photography and then claiming to be an architectural photographer, an interior design photographer, and they’re just not quite there yet. And so oftentimes what I end up seeing is like photos that claim to be interior design photos that still have that real estate look to them being like, oftentimes they’re just shot in the corner of the room.

Aaron Horner
They make the room look really wide and they make it look super bright. It’s, you know, can be like the highlights are super bright and the windows are artificially brought down. There’s very little thought towards the set dressing or the staging, that kind of stuff. So that I think that’s going to be the most important thing to look out for is just looking at their portfolio of work and making sure that they have the work you’re looking for and they don’t have a ton of the work that you’re not looking for. Finding a specialist, that would be my main thing outside of price and then going through and then talking with them. Then you can start looking into things like, well, what some of them will have it on their website, like what does their licensing look like? Do I own the photos?

Aaron Horner
Do I get to use it for all my marketing? That’s something to ask the photographer and consider when you’re hiring them. You know their pricing structure as well as having conversations about with them about like how their feedback system works. Like if you’re looking for photos to be a specific way in a specific style, but they can’t or they didn’t quite deliver it in that style, can you ask them for edits or are they really stuck to the one style they do that they don’t branch out from it, Those are the kind of questions I’d be asking as well.

Luke Strappelli
Okay, so we kind of went over the challenges of like, you know, if I’m in a very remote area, how do I find someone great if I do have multiple Options, which one do I choose? We just talk through. Yeah, but, like, realistically, if I send, you know, my marketing company photos or I use them for something else, like, how many do I need total? Like, you mentioned the different types of photos, but, like, I guess, like, for a ballpark number, how many photos should I aim for?

Aaron Horner
I would say, like, I mean, like, on our pages, we don’t use, I don’t know, more than 25 for a room.

Luke Strappelli
Okay.

Aaron Horner
I would think that would be, like, upper limit.

Luke Strappelli
Yeah. Bathroom, maybe like 10. Yeah. Like, yeah.

Aaron Horner
And it can be good to capture more. So then you can use them for, like, maybe you only use the top 10 for the website, but you use other ones for different purposes in your social media or something like that. But I would say around about there. I think sometimes people fall into the trap of they’re just like, I want to get the most of this. I want you to shoot everything. Which can then kind of make the price go up from a photographer’s perspective. But if you’re just diligent about saying, like, here’s the photos that I need, like, here’s the. Again, that’s why that prep sheet’s so important. Like, here are the key features that we need to highlight. Here’s the main things we need to get, then you’re not just spraying and praying, basically.

Aaron Horner
So I would say, typically what we see is it comes down to about that 20 photos, Mark, maybe 30.

Luke Strappelli
Okay.

Aaron Horner
Yeah. It’s all dependent on the size of the project and how many key features. But that’s a good ballpark number, I think.

Luke Strappelli
Okay.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Luke Strappelli
Okay. So going back to the point of, like. And I’m kind of jumping around.

Aaron Horner
Yeah, that’s fine.

Luke Strappelli
You know, the biggest challenge I hear, at least from the client success side of things when I work with my clients is maybe they didn’t get photos early enough, you know, right after the project or didn’t stage it after it was completed. And now there’s a family living in there. We touched on it a little bit, but going more in depth about that challenge of like, hey, family already living in it, Kids already living. You know, kids already there. You know, maybe the basement’s messy or their room’s messy. Like, all these challenges that you have because you essentially, like, have to clean it up or like, yeah. Somehow find time during your day and their day to get in there and stage it. And maybe again, like you said that example, like, replace some of the things on the table.

Luke Strappelli
So how do you really ask the homeowner to take photos of their home if they are living in it.

Aaron Horner
So obviously, ideal scenario, you’re asking them when you’re selling the project, like, very early on, you’re seeing that expectation, or when you’re in that design process, you’re setting the expectation for, hey, this is a beautiful project. It’s one that we’re going to want to put in our portfolio, which is helping building them up, letting them know this is a project that we’re personally excited about and we want to make sure we capture it. Selfishly, we’re excited about this, but if you didn’t do that and now you’re coming back, what we’ve seen a lot of people do is two things. One, offering to get a cleaner to come in and clean it all up for them.

Aaron Horner
Because then it’s one less thing that you’re asking the homeowner to do, because immediately they might be thinking in their head like, oh, gee, I do like the company, but that means we gotta stay out of the space for a bit. We gotta get all cleaned up. And honestly, life’s just crazy right now. It’s not that I won’t ever do it. Just like, not right now. Things are a little too busy. And so if you can do some sort of professional cleaning service, you’d be like, hey, I’ll take care of it, I’ll coordinate it. That kind of stuff. You let me know. And then pairing that with. We’ve seen people have a thing where it’s like, while we’re doing that, we’ll give you a gift card, Go take the family, go eat out for the night, something like that.

Aaron Horner
Or on the other end of things, I’ve seen some of our people have literally, like, Vought, who I was talking about earlier, will literally hire a chef to come in and cook in their kitchen for them. And so then it becomes kind of like an event. And you get the whole space cleaned up and you take the photos of it beforehand. But then you get the added benefit of you can also take photos of them, like with the chef in there and the space being used, and.

Luke Strappelli
Good way to get your next project, too.

Aaron Horner
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it’s. That’s typically the two things is offering to clean up and then also making an event out of it. Going that extra step and just making it clear to them, like, this is going to be super helpful for us. Obviously, we’re very thankful. We want to show you how thankful we are. Here’s the things that we’d be willing to do if you allow us to do that.

Luke Strappelli
Yeah.

Aaron Horner
That’s what I’ve seen a lot of our clients do. That’s worked. Obviously, I’ve had less of those conversations myself, but I’ve had a lot of conversations with our remodelers and that seems to be the typical thing. That helps a lot. Yeah.

Luke Strappelli
Yeah. Well, to kind of recap it. So if you made it this far, thanks for listening, but no. For the skeptic out there, for the person who thinks they can take these photos themselves, that they don’t need a professional, it’s just a photo. What would you say to that person of like the question of, do I even need a pro photographer? Aren’t my photos good enough? Again, if you made it this far and you’re like still thinking that question, I pray for you. But also then I would. Tell me. Yeah, tell me about the skeptic there.

Aaron Horner
If you’re a skeptic and you learned anything throughout this episode, you need to hire a photographer because we haven’t covered everything. There’s a lot more photography stuff that I’m not boring you with that you don’t need to know because you’re not a photographer. So if there’s anything you’ve learned, again, thinking about the idea of them using professional lights to shoot the space to make it look like natural lighting, you don’t intuitively know that and it’s not your fault. It’s just not your specialty. So I would encourage you to like you would encourage your clients to do, seek out a professional who can do it justice and invest in it being done the right way. Yeah. Especially if you’re that very high end luxury remodel, super high quality work.

Aaron Horner
You need your photos to back you up in that your words will only go so far. You need to make sure that you are visually aligning yourself with companies that look like that. You wanna look a lot more like a page out of Architectural Digestive than a Zillow listing.

Luke Strappelli
Yeah, you’re great at making it. Now you need someone who’s great at capturing it. Yeah, I’ve seen great designs and great remodels that are just captured horribly. And it like kind of hurts my heart. Cause I’m like, man, this could have been so much better. And like, you could have missed out on a prospect or client because of that.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Luke Strappelli
Yeah, I just think, yeah, you have. It’s an investment. It really is.

Aaron Horner
And again, we’re speaking from the perspective of not a photographer, but just your marketing company that’s like, you want to make your marketing Way better. Just get better photos. That would help you out a ton. We’re not getting a kickback. I wish were getting a kickback from Big Photo. I don’t have any relationship with Big photo, though.

Luke Strappelli
Yeah.

Aaron Horner
Sweet, man.

Luke Strappelli
Well, any final thoughts or any final things we want to let people know before we end this that we didn’t capture already?

Aaron Horner
I think if you’re listening to this audio, check out the video version or the links in our description so you can get the most out of this. We’re doing a lot right now at CGN to equip you with resources that are going to beneficial for you. Essentially, the vast majority of my whole job here is to help you, Luke, the client success managers, and help our clients have the resources they need to be successful. And so I would just encourage you to make the most out of the resources. Actually check out the resources that were given to you and make the most out of it. I think that would be my last thing. Cool.

Luke Strappelli
Yeah. And if you do go forward with CGN as your marketing company, just know if you get me, I will be brutally honest on your photos, but it’s ultimately for the success of your business and the betterment of it. So. Yeah. And the last thing, I guess. The last thing I guess I’ll add is there’s a good quote I want to end with, and it’s for, like, you know, we talked about the pro photographer, and, like, if, you know, can I just take my photo with my Canon or, like, my iPhone or whatever. But you’re paying someone for. For the time they spent to learn the subject, not just the time it takes them to get it done.

Aaron Horner
Yeah. Yeah.

Luke Strappelli
So I think, like, again, you mentioned they’re always living in this world. They know things, you know, mile deep, inch wide. They know things that you wouldn’t even think of. So hire a professional. Hire someone who’s gonna capture your work. Great. Because that’s the least you can do for yourself and for your work, is to capture it great and to put on your website and to wow people with it.

Aaron Horner
Nice.

Luke Strappelli
Yeah.

Aaron Horner
Well, Luke, thanks for joining, dude.

Luke Strappelli
Of course.

Aaron Horner
Yeah.

Luke Strappelli
Yeah. I’m pumped.

Aaron Horner
Happy to have you.

Luke Strappelli
Let’s go.

Aaron Horner
All right. See you guys.

Luke Strappelli
See you.